Malenia could be a lot more fun with 2 changes

[Enderspoons]

And my justifications for these changes.

1. When Malenia queues up Waterfowl Dance, force her to use her twirling-away-backwards move if she's close up before she begins Waterfowl Dance
— It's no secret that, while possible, trying to deal with this move up close is just stupidly precise. Therefore, I think Waterfowl Dance could be a lot more fun to deal with if Malenia is forced to create space before using it if you're up close, so that melee builds are not smoten into nonexistence simply for being unlucky when Malenia randomly rolls Waterfowl Dance for her next move.

2. Make Malenia's Roundhouse Kick either always or never get followed up with Rising-Falling Slash.
— This particular combo is just obnoxious to deal with. If you get hit, you are at the mercy of RNG whether or not you get punished with damage once or twice due to how Malenia cancels the startup of Rising-Falling Slash after following up from Roundhouse Kick.

Even if you are Gud and evaded it properly, you are still at the mercy of RNG whether you are able to actually punish Roundhouse Kick, as the near-nonexistent startup of Rising-Falling Slash plus the fact it occurs only rarely means that you get hit for trying to punish a whiffed Roundhouse Kick and getting unlucky. Therefore, I think the fight would flow better and be more fun overall if this combo was either not a thing at all or was guaranteed to happen every time.


Thoughts?

Edit: I should probably explain why I made this post. To quote myself from down in the comments:

Postat inițial de Myself:

My point with this post isn't that Waterfowl Dance is bad; or Rising-Falling Slash is bad; or the Malenia fight as a whole is bad; or that any of those are conceptually flawed.

My point is that Malenia's moveset as is is just.... fine. Not really great, just serviceable for the purposes of being a superboss.

There is room for improvement here for polishing up Malenia to make her a better and more enjoyable overall fight, is what I am trying to say.

[vamirez]

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

Postat inițial de CourtesyFlush90:

Watch the video again, this time more carefully.

He says "For all the valid criticism" of the fight and the move itself, you can't really deny how nice it looks aesthetically. He only comments on the attack's looks, not how it fits in mechanically.

He's able to at least acknowledge that there are issues with this fight, which some people here can't bring themselves to do because their entire existences hinges on this game being a perfect masterpiece, or something ;)

all the builds to dodge that stupid move requires something like light roll or blood hounds step and thats a fact.

Weirdly enough I used run, roll and block.

[Guldo]

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Postat inițial de CourtesyFlush90:

Watch the video again, this time more carefully.

He says "For all the valid criticism" of the fight and the move itself, you can't really deny how nice it looks aesthetically. He only comments on the attack's looks, not how it fits in mechanically.

He's able to at least acknowledge that there are issues with this fight, which some people here can't bring themselves to do because their entire existences hinges on this game being a perfect masterpiece, or something ;)

Nice how you strategically omit the rest of what he said and try to twist the meaning of it.

no that is exactly what he said. gaslight more.

[Guldo]

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

all the builds to dodge that stupid move requires something like light roll or blood hounds step and thats a fact.

Weirdly enough I used run, roll and block.

realisticly in most scenarios involving medium weight that just isnt possible. but keep pretending like waterfowl dance is fine.

[vamirez]

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Nice how you strategically omit the rest of what he said and try to twist the meaning of it.

no that is exactly what he said. gaslight more.

You (and everyone) can literally listen to it above. Lol...

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

realisticly in most scenarios involving medium weight that just isnt possible. but keep pretending like waterfowl dance is fine.

Ofc it is. And no need to pretend.

What is your theory on why FS hasn't "fixed" it?

[Guldo]

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

no that is exactly what he said. gaslight more.

You (and everyone) can literally listen to it above. Lol...

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

realisticly in most scenarios involving medium weight that just isnt possible. but keep pretending like waterfowl dance is fine.

Ofc it is. And no need to pretend.

What is your theory on why FS hasn't "fixed" it?

for the exact same reason bleed was trash in dark souls 3.

they dont care lol.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Postat inițial de CourtesyFlush90:

Watch the video again, this time more carefully.

He says "For all the valid criticism" of the fight and the move itself, you can't really deny how nice it looks aesthetically. He only comments on the attack's looks, not how it fits in mechanically.

He's able to at least acknowledge that there are issues with this fight, which some people here can't bring themselves to do because their entire existences hinges on this game being a perfect masterpiece, or something ;)

Nice how you strategically omit the rest of what he said and try to twist the meaning of it.

That's literally what he said. Are you referring to his concluding statement? If so, I'll summarize that for you, too

He goes on to say that some people get enjoyment from dodging it, and that he'll discuss what he likes and doesn't like about the fight. I'm willing to to take this guy seriously because of the parts that I bolded; he's looking at it from both sides and can acknowledge that there are issues with this fight.

Some people can't do that (as you know very well) because, quite frankly. they're rabid fanboys. And the world needs a little less of those around.

[Guldo]

Postat inițial de CourtesyFlush90:

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Nice how you strategically omit the rest of what he said and try to twist the meaning of it.

That's literally what he said. Are you referring to his concluding statement? If so, I'll summarize that for you, too

He goes on to say that some people get enjoyment from dodging it, and that he'll discuss what he likes and doesn't like about the fight. I'm willing to to take this guy seriously because of the parts that I bolded; he's looking at it from both sides and can acknowledge that there are issues with this fight.

Some people can't do that (as you know very well know) because, quite frankly. they're rabid fanboys. And the world needs a little less of those around.

there was a guy in another thread dodging the move flawlessly and refused to take the L because he has defeated her over 100 times.

the video in question was him being way on the other side of the map so he gets to avoid the most lethal part of waterfowl dance and just roll dodges into her once and claims hes a pro at dodging her attack.

i told him to now do it solo with medium weight and see how it goes with a melee weapon.

[vamirez]

You still misrepresent what the guy said. It's really amazing. How about you listen to it again? I mean it only takes a few seconds.

Btw I like how you always equate anything I say (and other folks) with rabid fanboyism. Like "imo waterfowl is fine as is" = rabid fanboyism + why don't you shut up?

[vamirez]

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

Postat inițial de vamirez:

You (and everyone) can literally listen to it above. Lol...



Ofc it is. And no need to pretend.

What is your theory on why FS hasn't "fixed" it?

for the exact same reason bleed was trash in dark souls 3.

they dont care lol.

So, they do a number of patches, balance bosses and weapons and what not. But they specifically don't care about this? Why?

[Guldo]

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

for the exact same reason bleed was trash in dark souls 3.

they dont care lol.

So, they do a number of patches, balance bosses and weapons and what not. But they specifically don't care about this? Why?

it sure beats me why they wouldnt make that move more dodgeable by medium weight builds but then you also have to also ask yourself why bleed were bad in dark souls 3.

game balance is just everywhere in souls games.

people just dont want to admit that souls games are badly balanced anyway and thats the truth.

if anyone says that souls games are balanced then they are just straight up lying.

the only thing one needs to do to understand just how unblanced dark souls games are is to step in to pvp.

[Kobi Blade]

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Both of these things, your "definition" and your accusation, are complete nonsense, m8.

lol your idea of dodging her waterfowl dance is this apparently and most builds are medium roll and its impossible to dodge with medium roll.

the light roll iframes are huge compared to medium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akJBNiQr1o8

I didn't know I was special but thank you, I beat her and evaded her attacks with medium weight, as I bonked her with the brick.

She stands in the air for a huge amount of time, I don't know what makes you think you don't have time to react.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

there was a guy in another thread dodging the move flawlessly and refused to take the L because he has defeated her over 100 times.

the video in question was him being way on the other side of the map so he gets to avoid the most lethal part of waterfowl dance and just roll dodges into her once and claims hes a pro at dodging her attack.

i told him to now do it solo with medium weight and see how it goes with a melee weapon.

lol unfortunately that's why mages have developed a reputation for being cowards when it comes to Souls.

[vamirez]

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

Postat inițial de vamirez:

So, they do a number of patches, balance bosses and weapons and what not. But they specifically don't care about this? Why?

it sure beats me why they wouldnt make that move more dodgeable by medium weight builds but then you also have to also ask yourself why bleed were bad in dark souls 3.

game balance is just everywhere in souls games.

people just dont want to admit that souls games are badly balanced anyway and thats the truth.

if anyone says that souls games are balanced then they are just straight up lying.

the only thing one needs to do to understand just how unblanced dark souls games are is to step in to pvp.

You are aware that your understanding of balance and how it should be is highly subjective, right? ER using all the different tools is fairly doable, and you can adjust how hard you want things to be yourself.

[s0d0]

DS pvp seems unbalanced because it is now 6 or 7 years old and some people abuse stuff.
Thats pretty normal. Overall, DS is well balanced, a large percentage of the weapon arsenal is completely viable in pvp and pve.
Talking about waterfwl, I already stated that I am not a big fan of it, but I've seen people and friends do totally ridiculous builds and like killing malenia with consumables only or ground slam only etc, and a large percentage of the ER players are totally fine with her.
So why should that get "fixed"?

[Guldo]

Postat inițial de Kobi Blade:

Postat inițial de Kenshiro:

lol your idea of dodging her waterfowl dance is this apparently and most builds are medium roll and its impossible to dodge with medium roll.

the light roll iframes are huge compared to medium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akJBNiQr1o8

I didn't know I was special but thank you, I beat her and evaded her attacks with medium weight, as I bonked her with the brick.

She stands in the air for a huge amount of time, I don't know what makes you think you don't have time to react.

yea im going to have to call bs on this one as even if you start running away when you were in melee range she covers so much distance with the initial attack that she will catch you reguardless. if you were able to run away and not get hit you were far enough away from her when she did waterfowl dance so it didnt hit you.

its kinda funny no one will post video evidence of their claims but when they do its vastly different from what they described.