Invasions at this state are toxic

[Troppauer]

First of all I want to say, that even though Iam not a PVP player, I admit, that invasions are interesting feature and it brings some thrill and unknown danger to the game. But the way it is executed is very frustrating.

Like imagine you and your friend never played Dark Souls or played it, but arent very good at it and you want to experience it together. You go from church of Elleh through that forrest kill few soldiers there and suddenly boom. You are instantly death by electric shot from cannon after playing five minutes together. And thats something that happened to me. And experinces then were very simmilar. Guys with late game gear rekting us on starting levels.

Look I wouldnt have a problem if guy of similar skill or with better skill, but similar gear invaded us that might even be fun, but loosers that have nothing to do with their lives keep low level and ride all map to grab all the best things to bully noobs in starting area that is really toxic and should be somehow prevented by designers.

Also there should be higher cooldown for invasions, at least 20 minutes. Having your game ruined every 5 minutes is really not fun, even if we would manage to defeat invader every time.

Please dont write git gud. I would have to be Dark Souls God to easily beat guys with late game gear every 5 minutes on start game and even then it would be very annoying. I dont know why there even is coop aspect, when we are so hardly punished for playing in this mode.

[MULTIPASS]

Get the recusant finger from volcano manor and try some invasions yourself. If you spend a little time doing that, you'll soon realize that hosts can be far more toxic than invaders.

I agree that the overall system is terrible. They could probably fix it by bringing it back in line with how multiplayer was set up in DS3.

[rkmugen]

... and then, there's that whole thing of 'gank squads'. (just being thorough)

[justfaded]

You have the advantage. Come on people just play the game. Guaranteed this guy had one bad session where he got his ass beat. We'll never hear about all the times when he and his friend beat invaders.

[Havok]

I honestly have to admit, that I agree, to a degree. I am a pro-pvp souls player, and I think invasions are a crucial aspect of the game. However..

I counted quite a few invaders when I was cooping < 60 that had items well past what zone we were in. From dual radahans greatswords, to ROB. Considering you have to certain things to unlock the festival, and you would actively have to skip alot to bumrush ROB at our level, it leads me to believe 1 of two things. Smurf accounts, or they were dropped items, either from friends, or their main.

I am currently 190ish, with my friend, and for a while, we were invaded every 3-4 minutes around the 180-185 level in NG+. Which, I found strange, given everyone says 125-150 is the sweet spot for PVP.

It seems after I got out the high end of the range I was in, likely 160-165, invasions slowed drastically.

Now, I think they are a fundemental mechanic, and given its a 2v1, even a 3v1, invaders are at a huge disadvantage. Now, I do like seeing other peoples builds, and I enjoy the "good" pvp, when it happens.

I dont think a cooldown on when your world can be invaded is ideal, especially not at 20 minutes per invasion, but I think 10 minutes is fair. If you know your route, 10 minutes should be enough to get to a bonfire.

Now there also is the issue of same level weapons, so in that regard, while overleveling weapons is useful, knowing about what level your weapon should be for zone will highly reduce potential invaders.

I also think that invasions should very much be per zone unlocked, and if they already are, how do you mitigate against people who are dropped weapons on new accounts? You cant. odds are, they are max level weapons, so not running max level weapons helps, but does it stop them? no, not really.

I dont exactly understand it, but it seems you are having a similar experience to me, and for whatever reason, I feel like a magnet for invasions. I dont particularly mind, until back to back invaders comes in who makes me run half the zone just to fight. That i mind. You come track us down, buff and fight? awesome, love those. you make us chase, pulling halfway across the map looking for mobs to sit inside (which we already killed) and make an invasion last 20 minutes? I am not interested in that

[MULTIPASS]

Originally posted by Havok:

I counted quite a few invaders when I was cooping < 60 that had items well past what zone we were in. From dual radahans greatswords, to ROB. Considering you have to certain things to unlock the festival, and you would actively have to skip alot to bumrush ROB at our level, it leads me to believe 1 of two things. Smurf accounts, or they were dropped items, either from friends, or their main.

It's possible to acquire late-game items through mods or drops, but not necessary. If someone wanted to put the work in to get something like RoB early, it's not that difficult of a task especially if you're talking about going as high as 40-50 rune level. Rushing to mountaintops is not as hard as it sounds: rush Godrick and Rennala, then draconic sentinel, Godfrey shade, and Morgott, then simply ride up to the church and fight the npc. The hardest part of that is probably Morgott, but I've beaten him at level 10 solo using the antspur rapier - it can be done. If you've cleared that, you can also clear Radhan (his greatsword has built-in powerstance by the way, you don't need 2 of them).

Originally posted by Havok:

and for whatever reason, I feel like a magnet for invasions.

You feel this way because FS has drastically cut the number of people who can be invaded, which means all the invaders are being funneled into the worlds of the people who co-op or use taunter's tongue.

[TwinChops]

Originally posted by MULTIPASS:

Originally posted by Havok:

I counted quite a few invaders when I was cooping < 60 that had items well past what zone we were in. From dual radahans greatswords, to ROB. Considering you have to certain things to unlock the festival, and you would actively have to skip alot to bumrush ROB at our level, it leads me to believe 1 of two things. Smurf accounts, or they were dropped items, either from friends, or their main.

It's possible to acquire late-game items through mods or drops, but not necessary. If someone wanted to put the work in to get something like RoB early, it's not that difficult of a task especially if you're talking about going as high as 40-50 rune level. Rushing to mountaintops is not as hard as it sounds: rush Godrick and Rennala, then draconic sentinel, Godfrey shade, and Morgott, then simply ride up to the church and fight the npc. The hardest part of that is probably Morgott, but I've beaten him at level 10 solo using the antspur rapier - it can be done. If you've cleared that, you can also clear Radhan (his greatsword has built-in powerstance by the way, you don't need 2 of them).

Yeah, at my first playtrough Radhan was my second big boss, and i completly (well 90%) finished off Calied at like level 40 or so, simply because i kept exploring.

[Havok]

Originally posted by MULTIPASS:

Originally posted by Havok:

I counted quite a few invaders when I was cooping < 60 that had items well past what zone we were in. From dual radahans greatswords, to ROB. Considering you have to certain things to unlock the festival, and you would actively have to skip alot to bumrush ROB at our level, it leads me to believe 1 of two things. Smurf accounts, or they were dropped items, either from friends, or their main.

It's possible to acquire late-game items through mods or drops, but not necessary. If someone wanted to put the work in to get something like RoB early, it's not that difficult of a task especially if you're talking about going as high as 40-50 rune level. Rushing to mountaintops is not as hard as it sounds: rush Godrick and Rennala, then draconic sentinel, Godfrey shade, and Morgott, then simply ride up to the church and fight the npc. The hardest part of that is probably Morgott, but I've beaten him at level 10 solo using the antspur rapier - it can be done. If you've cleared that, you can also clear Radhan (his greatsword has built-in powerstance by the way, you don't need 2 of them).

Idk why people run dualies, but they do.

But yea, point still stands, I know it isnt impossible to boss rush, and get those end game items early, but thats exactly the thing, if youre doing that, at low levels, and I consider <70 low level, just because builds are, tight on points, you clearly know what you are doing, and speccing into the weapon. Like, lets take ROB for example.

ROB, for someone that has been playing, knows it is nowhere near its former glory, which was a bleed melting machine. Its still good, AND, if you have been playing, you know its easy as fudge to avoid that AOW, and staggerlock a ROB spammer. BUT...

Newer players, would never know how to defend against it. You get caught in the bleed, then you panic roll, and the ROB user plays aggressively, starts trying to build bleed, and maybe your vigor isnt high enough to withstand a bleed proc, and you die.

Sure, it isnt difficult to avoid, and some things arent too bad, but if youre running gravity AOWs to punish early game players, like the pull or push gravity, and they have no idea how to defend against it at level 40-70, then youre just smurfing for the sake of punishing new players.

The best pvp i have had, sure, is low level pvp, where builds are still being worked on, and the invader is relatively close in gear to me. Those fights are super fun. if youre running "end game" builds in low levels just to smash hosts, meh, go play coloseum, or invade in the meta level area.

[Havok]

Originally posted by MULTIPASS:

Originally posted by Havok:

and for whatever reason, I feel like a magnet for invasions.

You feel this way because FS has drastically cut the number of people who can be invaded, which means all the invaders are being funneled into the worlds of the people who co-op or use taunter's tongue.

But thats what im saying, I played day1 and I do not remember nearly as many invasions as we encounter now. I end my games around 160, because i try to do everything I can, and then my NG+s i just do what i feel like, but, im not sure what it is, when I entered NG+ and was 170-180.. invasions were back to back to back. Sometimes 2-3 before each bonfire, and thats running routes and avoiding unncessary bonfires.

Thats what I dont understand, is when I invade, im waiting there for 20 minutes and get alt+f4'd and kicked back. I just dont get the current state of invasions.

[PK_Thunder]

Them having better gear than you is them putting in more effort. They're supposed to win if they put in more effort than you.

If you don't want to deal with invaders, don't summon golds. It's as simple as that.

[Clail]

Originally posted by Thane:

Like imagine you and your friend never played Dark Souls or played it, but arent very good at it and you want to experience it together.

Ultimately this is the root of the problem. You bought a single player game with a unique phase in phase out multiplayer mechanic, not a traditional 4 player coop game or MMO you can both play through the entirety of the game together.

A lot of new players to this franchise came in with the wrong expectations and/or wanting to change the fundamental aspects of the series up to this point.

[Scuzz]

Is this in the state of Florida?

[Scuzz]

Originally posted by PK_Thunder:

Them having better gear than you is them putting in more effort. They're supposed to win if they put in more effort than you.

If you don't want to deal with invaders, don't summon golds. It's as simple as that.

"More effort"? More like somebody who dropped them the weapon after they begged for it on this forum. Okay, maybe not everyone does that, but a lot of them.

As for PvP, I personally like invasions but both hosts and invaders abuse the game.

[Troppauer]

Originally posted by PK_Thunder:

Them having better gear than you is them putting in more effort. They're supposed to win if they put in more effort than you.

If you don't want to deal with invaders, don't summon golds. It's as simple as that.

I said I dont mind invaders, I mind invaders that are making smurf accounts with late game gear only to bully new players. You shouldnt be facing weapons from Mountaintops, Leyndell, Haligtree on lvl 15 character.

[PK_Thunder]

Originally posted by Thane:

Originally posted by PK_Thunder:

Them having better gear than you is them putting in more effort. They're supposed to win if they put in more effort than you.

If you don't want to deal with invaders, don't summon golds. It's as simple as that.

I said I dont mind invaders, I mind invaders that are making smurf accounts with late game gear only to bully new players. You shouldnt be facing weapons from Mountaintops, Leyndell, Haligtree on lvl 15 character.

That's the point. There is no such thing as a "smurf". Whining that other people should have their options restricted is petty and selfish.

[Shinkiro]

Originally posted by Clail:

Ultimately this is the root of the problem. You bought a single player game with a unique phase in phase out multiplayer mechanic, not a traditional 4 player coop game or MMO you can both play through the entirety of the game together.

A lot of new players to this franchise came in with the wrong expectations and/or wanting to change the fundamental aspects of the series up to this point.

Yep this 100%. It applies not only to new players but all the types of people we see here and every other souls forums complaining about invasions ever since demon souls.

Their expectations for the game are wrong. period. They want it to be an experience that it's not meant to be and that's whats causing all the problems, fighting and toxic behaviour between the groups. It is simply a single player game with drop in/out MP, and not a PvE Coop game.