Being an invader in this game is just pure pain.

['budgie.exe ⚠]

Casuls are stronger than ever before, they have every advantage over an invader. They don't get their Estus numer split in half if they summon, They can use Great Runes and host's are almost always overleveled (or at least the summon is). They get carried by op build in this game, broken powerstancing and spammable jumping attacks. You're always in 1v2 or 1v3 scenario, and most of the ivasion you'll be dodging annoying spells and ♥♥♥♥. This game invasions are just a mistake.

[Lylliana of Mirrah]

Originally posted by ✪Asielra✪:

Originally posted by 'budgie.exe ⚠:

You're always in 1v2 or 1v3 scenario.
This game invasions are just a mistake.

This much is true, the rest is skill issue. in my experience about 90% of all invasions are either fog walls or dedicated gank squads. While you can't do anything about the former and just have to bare loading yet again into the Radagon arena, the latter is pure cancer. Dismantling these 3 men no TT cowards is tideous and nigh impossible without cheated meatballs and mana shards - which I ain't gonna cheat, mind you, and honestly even if you have them, it's not worth the effort.

ER Invasion is always has been "not worth the effort"

[ZTL-Altima]

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

the increased difficulty of dodging spells that can be cast with greater variance or which are impossible to avoid with iframes (ex: dragon breaths)

This is a huge anti-neutral aspect many people fail to spot.

Running a mile in just to having to run a mile out because spammer gonna spam. UGLY mechanic. Players reflexes means too little with this game's PvP tooling.

[VisualEthics]

I think the problem with invasions is its a 2 v 1, and even though youre matched with someone on your skill level, their homie isnt

[Lylliana of Mirrah]

Originally posted by Parsify:

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

the increased difficulty of dodging spells that can be cast with greater variance or which are impossible to avoid with iframes (ex: dragon breaths)

This is a huge anti-neutral aspect many people fail to spot.

Running a mile in just to having to run a mile out because spammer gonna spam. UGLY mechanic. Players reflexes means too little with this game's PvP tooling.

fast rolling is might the only thing that i could use to dodge at this point lol

[Havok]

Back when the game released and people were still in their first run, finding cool weapons, it was way more enjoyable to pvp, atleast, i believe so.

A year later, coming back and cooping this game, there is hardly any variety to invasions. Add onto the fact that when we got to Black Blades area, we were invaded, by the same person, 11 times, in both of our worlds combined. We seem to get a lot of invasions, 2, sometimes 3 per area, and in the one case, 11 times by the same person with two people as hosts.

Look, invasion mechanics are stacked against the invader. 2v1 right off the bat, not including a hunter making it a 3v1.

Whenever I invade, I do not care about pulling you into mobs. Because guess what, I am simply interested in the invasion. If i lose, oh well. move right along. So I get tired of every invader just running through a zone looking for mobs we have already beaten.

On top of that, when on the frozen lake, I had an invader that attempted to pull dragon, and you already have low visibility, which, fair play for you, but when you actually decided to attack, its spam the dagger aow that throws a bleed blade at the enemy, run. run. bleed blade aow spam. run run.

All I have to say, I would enjoy invasions more if invaders just accept the 2v1, and pvp without mobs. Who cares if you win or lose. oh.. thats right. Youre such a nub that you want to go in for the tbag when the host dies to pve and you just sit back and add damage. cool for you

[Alex]

Originally posted by 'budgie.exe ⚠:

Casuls are stronger than ever before, they have every advantage over an invader. They don't get their Estus numer split in half if they summon, They can use Great Runes and host's are almost always overleveled (or at least the summon is). They get carried by op build in this game, broken powerstancing and spammable jumping attacks. You're always in 1v2 or 1v3 scenario, and most of the ivasion you'll be dodging annoying spells and ♥♥♥♥. This game invasions are just a mistake.

Well, I'm going to break your points down and give my cents on it, if anyone cares.

1. "Casuls are stronger than ever before"
Yes, but that's not inherently a bad thing. It's the spamming of over the top spells and ashes of wars that makes the encounters boring that's the main issue and that randomness in this spam creates so many situations where timing is either futile or a single slip-up means 100 to zero in an instant.

2. "They don't get their Estus numer split in half if they summon"
I see no problem with this. Learn to heal-punish or something. Most fights ends before anyone is out of healing, which indicates this isn't really an issue.

3. "They can use Great Runes and host's are almost always overleveled"
Hosts can't be overleveled. The invasion range might be a bit generous upwards, so they can certainly be higher level. The advantage from the invader perspective is larger activity pool. The downside is that you might be at a level (and weapon) disadvantage to host and usually phantoms to a larger degree. This is even before password summons enters the discussion.

So if we look at the upwards "worst case" scenario for an invader, a rune level 60+12/5 invader can invade a host which is rune level 86+17/7. This host can have two non-password summons (which by default doesn't suffer downscaling) that are rune level 105+20/8 (technically +21 normal upgrades). So even before we start to discuss downscaling, invaders should be aware that the system is far from rigged in their favour but it's not entirely to make their life miserable.

4. "They get carried by op build in this game"
That's actually nobody's business. If someone wants to build for powergaming it's their choice.

EDIT: Because of the amount of spammable abilities in this game my controller's dodge button is suffering from wear and tear. 6 years of Dark Souls 3 didn't even show any similar signs on my previous (identical) controller. I just thought this is a mildly funny illustration of an ER invaders reality.

[SlantedRhetoric]

The fact people keep invading while the invasion system is like this is proof that the concept doesn't need to be redone.

Or put another way if you think the invasion system in this game is bad, stop invading, they collect enough data to know if it's so bad that people don't use it at all, or not.

[Kalameet]

Originally posted by 'budgie.exe ⚠:

Whatever OP posted

Good, suffer.

[desecratedpetals]

Originally posted by SlantedRhetoric:

The fact people keep invading while the invasion system is like this is proof that the concept doesn't need to be redone.

Or put another way if you think the invasion system in this game is bad, stop invading, they collect enough data to know if it's so bad that people don't use it at all, or not.

There is a difference between redoing a system and improving it. ER made changes that make invading generally less fun, and it would be nice if they made improvements via patches.

Personally, I keep invading because its still the only form of PvP I actually enjoy, and all of the souls games are too dead for me to main them.

[SertanDoom]

Originally posted by 'budgie.exe ⚠:

Casuls are stronger than ever before, they have every advantage over an invader. They don't get their Estus numer split in half if they summon, They can use Great Runes and host's are almost always overleveled (or at least the summon is). They get carried by op build in this game, broken powerstancing and spammable jumping attacks. You're always in 1v2 or 1v3 scenario, and most of the ivasion you'll be dodging annoying spells and ♥♥♥♥. This game invasions are just a mistake.

Home field advantage.

[Sir Happy]

Originally posted by 'budgie.exe ⚠:

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

Do you think all players are happy when you invade them?

It's a part of the game, if you dont want to get invaded, then play solo. Everyone who plays with summons deserves inasion.

This is why we have seamless coop now.

[SlantedRhetoric]

Originally posted by Willow >w<:

Originally posted by SlantedRhetoric:

The fact people keep invading while the invasion system is like this is proof that the concept doesn't need to be redone.

Or put another way if you think the invasion system in this game is bad, stop invading, they collect enough data to know if it's so bad that people don't use it at all, or not.

There is a difference between redoing a system and improving it. ER made changes that make invading generally less fun, and it would be nice if they made improvements via patches.

Personally, I keep invading because its still the only form of PvP I actually enjoy, and all of the souls games are too dead for me to main them.

I'm just saying this is an instance in which you can "vote with your feet". Like, they get that game data for a reason and unless they just don't want invasions I don't see why they wouldn't worry if invasion attempts dropped off a cliff.

[desecratedpetals]

Originally posted by SlantedRhetoric:

Originally posted by Willow >w<:

There is a difference between redoing a system and improving it. ER made changes that make invading generally less fun, and it would be nice if they made improvements via patches.

Personally, I keep invading because its still the only form of PvP I actually enjoy, and all of the souls games are too dead for me to main them.

I'm just saying this is an instance in which you can "vote with your feet". Like, they get that game data for a reason and unless they just don't want invasions I don't see why they wouldn't worry if invasion attempts dropped off a cliff.

Fromsoft has never cared about their multiplayer, I doubt they even keep statistics on it.

Elden Ring sold extremely well despite having a generally bad invasion system not many people liked, they have very little insentive to care compared to more multiplayer focused gamed.

This really sucks as someone who has spent thousands of hours PvPing in their games, but I've gotten used to the PvP community being largely ignored and patches being rare, and I'm not hopefull they'll do that much more good.

[ilyrad]

I think that in all honesty the mechanic from a world theme/FS perspective.....
I agree that it is totally unbalanced against the invaders and I do actually wish it was a little more fair but ultimately from the perspective of the games lore and world it wouldn't make sense, someone invading into your realm like that is going into your realm and will be at a disadvantage, we fight them on their turf and get the actually super powerful boon of all the worlds enemies being on our side.

I think the goal was to make things a little more fair for a person playing through their own world while also setting the bar for invaders... now being a invader feels like a trial that you should only really do when you have the skill and build for it and that is rewarding in its own way.

I think people who hate on invaders really need to take a step back and remember that this game and other souls games with the mechanic were built on a certain concept and if there was no mechanic like this the game would fundamentally feel different and I don't think it would be in a good way.... if you get to have friends help you shouldn't the enemies grow to reflect that? Elden ring has at least made the mechanic harder against invades so be thankful for that much... popping a ember would allow invades even if playing alone, now they only happen when you summon allies and you always have more numbers on your side... don't like it? play seamless co-op or offline, just know that this is a intended part of the experience.... and so is the act of being a invader.

[Abra⁧⁧cadabra]

Bruh every invader I fight is using dual great thrusting/spears with bleed. I'm glad y'all are getting ♥♥♥♥♥♥, be less dull.