the solution to invasions.

[Dedprice]

go above level 200. thats it. Confused?
twinks: dont exist in 200+ bracket and the builds if brought to that level will never one shot you unless you ignored vigor for 200 levels. your defense also spikes if you level other stuff but yeah.
PVE is a literal breeze above level 200 as you broke soft caps and hit hard caps. you can easily hit 200 before NG+ as well.

and duels arent "super quick" past 200.
The thing we all forgot is that elden ring IS SEPERATE from all from games. its NEW. its DIFFERENT. and i believe miyazaki wanted players to push their levels. i know for fact the first week elden ring was out people already decided 120 was the meta level for online again. this was a mistake. especially when some builds require 70 points in just one stat. i think miyazaki wanted the playerbase to acually push levels and go way up and beyond, with meta being 200, the new gamers being 300 and then the dedicated, sweaties. being somewhere above that. more proof would be stat value. in DS3 and the souls before that. stats were always valued the same. the easiest to look at was high requirement items were 50, not 70 and another would be health: being 25 to 27 depending on class for 1000 health while near every class needs a minimum of 30 in elden ring to just BARELY hit 1k health. (which we all know can still be one shot by other players)

i know i usually make mock and troll posts (if you know me) but im dead serious on this one thread. all solutions to multiplayer exist above level 200. the holiest is that currently, theres like NO invaders trying to really go above 180-185 so they can constantly find invasions. so PvE players that wish invasions to be removed/cry like babies about invasions: if you got the souls. full send your ass out their brackets and into more open waters.

[Dedprice]

Eastersimulator a écrit :

Best fix: play offline
Alternative: if a npc or a invader kills you doesn't matter, work on your fragile ego.
Sl 200 duells are quicker because you deal more damage and dont get mutch for leveling vigor beyond 60, which you should already have at sl120.
Also the DLC will be boring because you will breeze through it at that level.
bad b8 m8 i r8 1/8

:I all of this is somewhat facts except i dont find duels quicker at 200. i reallllly wanna see how theyll end faster than 120 when 1 move ends a duel at 120. nothing could possibly be faster than that. additionally..damage is lower. i think people see AR's higher and think its quicker but nah, defenses start catching up around then like ive previously stated.

[ressenmacher]

Dedprice a écrit :

im not looking for something to be told. you shouldnt have to invest 60 points into vigor..like ever..unless for some reason thats your build but its not required for anything. 60 vigor is still one shot capable around 150. im not complaining about the damage. im informing people that 200 and up is better for multiplayer because of multiple reasons. one is that due to leveling into other stats, your defenses naturally go up, resulting in one shots happening far less often, to not at all..

Is this spelled out to a T enough. would you like me to re post it in bold? italicized? jesus H. i bet you still dont even know the point of this post without going back and re-reading, you just drew up 3 conclusions without even finding my actual point.

I know you're not looking for something to be told, but what you're telling me just...isn't making sense. About the increased defense making things less lethal, I mean; here, let me give you an example.


Using the AzureWebsite's AR calculator, I get that a Bastard Sword +25 Sacred infused at base stats with 80 Fth has 288 physical AR (259 base + 29 scaling) and 452 holy AR (259 base + 192 scaling).

Taking it up to 66 strength, which the level 250 build can support but the meta build probably can't, and you get 334 physical AR, a gain of 46 AR over RL 133.

At RL 133 I'm looking at 160 flat physical defense. At 250, it's only gone up by 9 points, to 169. At max level, it's still only at 195.

Plugging this into Kaeporo's Damage Calculator, I get that the damage in the meta level case is 182, and that the damage in the high level case is 221. You would need to increase your absorption by about 17% to break even...and this is using the DS3 damage formulas, which I know from testing with Dragonirian actually overestimate the impact of flat defense in Elden Ring.


By all accounts you should be seeing more damage, not less, even from this bog standard sword that I've slapped double scaling parameters on. In combination with your very weird builds with their low HP, this is why I'm wondering if there's something else going on that accounts for your greater survivability, because it doesn't look like the flat defense should account for it and nobody seems to be saying "yeah, I also play at high levels and take lower damage."

[Dedprice]

ressenmacher a écrit :

Dedprice a écrit :

im not looking for something to be told. you shouldnt have to invest 60 points into vigor..like ever..unless for some reason thats your build but its not required for anything. 60 vigor is still one shot capable around 150. im not complaining about the damage. im informing people that 200 and up is better for multiplayer because of multiple reasons. one is that due to leveling into other stats, your defenses naturally go up, resulting in one shots happening far less often, to not at all..

Is this spelled out to a T enough. would you like me to re post it in bold? italicized? jesus H. i bet you still dont even know the point of this post without going back and re-reading, you just drew up 3 conclusions without even finding my actual point.

I know you're not looking for something to be told, but what you're telling me just...isn't making sense. About the increased defense making things less lethal, I mean; here, let me give you an example.


Using the AzureWebsite's AR calculator, I get that a Bastard Sword +25 Sacred infused at base stats with 80 Fth has 288 physical AR (259 base + 29 scaling) and 452 holy AR (259 base + 192 scaling).

Taking it up to 66 strength, which the level 250 build can support but the meta build probably can't, and you get 334 physical AR, a gain of 46 AR over RL 133.

At RL 133 I'm looking at 160 flat physical defense. At 250, it's only gone up by 9 points, to 169. At max level, it's still only at 195.

Plugging this into Kaeporo's Damage Calculator, I get that the damage in the meta level case is 182, and that the damage in the high level case is 221. You would need to increase your absorption by about 17% to break even...and this is using the DS3 damage formulas, which I know from testing with Dragonirian actually overestimate the impact of flat defense in Elden Ring.


By all accounts you should be seeing more damage, not less, even from this bog standard sword that I've slapped double scaling parameters on. In combination with your very weird builds with their low HP, this is why I'm wondering if there's something else going on that accounts for your greater survivability, because it doesn't look like the flat defense should account for it and nobody seems to be saying "yeah, I also play at high levels and take lower damage."

listen ill make it as simple as possible because saying "this is that" and "that is this" is hard to believe. i have two characters. one at 140(?) and one at 240(?) or roughly around those levels. you can hit them both with whatever you want and ill even respec them to have the exact same stats. the damage will be lower on the higher.

once that is done, or if you want to skip that. Well grab whatever weapon you want, and ill slap any character YOU want with it.

or we can skip that or whatever you want to do. Im genuinely asking as well if you have been past the 200 level for pvp.
Initially at first i thought "i have to be doing more damage, i have 20 more stats here and there" but you just dont.
another reason is just defense levels from ~runes~ because if you let players decide entirely what defenses they had, theyd max out whatever the majority of the game had, as soon as possible or respec every time adversity and diversity came.

The formulas for calculating Fire Defense on Rune Level are as follows:
Level 1 - 71 --> 40 + 60*((Lvl+79 - 1) / 149)
Level 72 - 91 --> 100 + 20*((Lvl+79 - 150) / 20)
Level 92 - 161 --> 120 + 15*((Lvl+79 - 170) / 70)
Level 162 - 713 --> 135 + 20*((Lvl+79 - 240) / 552)
The formulas for calculating Fire Defense on Vigor are as follows:
Level 1 - 30 --> 20*(Lvl / 30)
Level 31 - 40 --> 20 + 20*((Lvl - 30) / 10)
Level 41 - 60 --> 40 + 20*((Lvl - 40) / 20)
Level 61 - 99 --> 60 + 10*((Lvl - 60) / 39)

as you can see, while sure leveling VIGOR increases fire defense, it doesnt touch the nat increases from rune levels alone, instead its just a bonus. the true defense comes from the leveling itself and with each new cap.

[Rommel]

When I don't care about being invaded I play online. When I'm at certain spots
and don't wish to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with I go off line. Simple....

[Gnarrang]

the solution to invasions. Go to lvl 200 and only lvl vigor to 35 max... im crying laughing lol

[zero]

Gnarrang a écrit :

the solution to invasions. Go to lvl 200 and only lvl vigor to 35 max... im crying laughing lol

"not only does this not resolve invasions, i also put my vig to a level where i can be one shot"

[ressenmacher]

Dedprice a écrit :

listen ill make it as simple as possible because saying "this is that" and "that is this" is hard to believe. i have two characters. one at 140(?) and one at 240(?) or roughly around those levels. you can hit them both with whatever you want and ill even respec them to have the exact same stats. the damage will be lower on the higher.

Of course the damage will be lower on the higher character. The thing in question is whether the damage decrease on the higher character matches or exceeds the increase in attack a character also gets as they increase in level.

Dedprice a écrit :

or we can skip that or whatever you want to do. Im genuinely asking as well if you have been past the 200 level for pvp.

Are you reading the responses I give you? This was asked and answered previously in the thread:

ressenmacher a écrit :

Dedprice a écrit :

im sure. level 300 char in elden ring, and i maxed level in ds3. no one ever one shot me in ds3. EVER once i hit a certain level and the same is already true in elden ring. i wonder though, have you even gone above level 200? because ive actually had MOST my pvp there (im an invader, its not that its active.) and was never one shot like i was around 150 and below. and my vigor stayed the same through all those levels. even when i respeced into a squishy mage.

Only in DS3, where I used a level 250 character for a while. Damage was absolutely higher.

Dedprice a écrit :

another reason is just defense levels from ~runes~ because if you let players decide entirely what defenses they had, theyd max out whatever the majority of the game had, as soon as possible or respec every time adversity and diversity came.

The formulas for calculating Fire Defense on Rune Level are as follows:
Level 1 - 71 --> 40 + 60*((Lvl+79 - 1) / 149)
Level 72 - 91 --> 100 + 20*((Lvl+79 - 150) / 20)
Level 92 - 161 --> 120 + 15*((Lvl+79 - 170) / 70)
Level 162 - 713 --> 135 + 20*((Lvl+79 - 240) / 552)
The formulas for calculating Fire Defense on Vigor are as follows:
Level 1 - 30 --> 20*(Lvl / 30)
Level 31 - 40 --> 20 + 20*((Lvl - 30) / 10)
Level 41 - 60 --> 40 + 20*((Lvl - 40) / 20)
Level 61 - 99 --> 60 + 10*((Lvl - 60) / 39)

as you can see, while sure leveling VIGOR increases fire defense, it doesnt touch the nat increases from rune levels alone, instead its just a bonus. the true defense comes from the leveling itself and with each new cap.

Yes, that's my point: that the flat defense boosts from being higher level shouldn't be enough to overcome the damage increases from being able to start scaling secondary and tertiary stats. That's why I looked at physical defenses, because I calced based on a faith build and thus I was only looking at the rune level increases to defense.

But hey, I could be wrong. Maybe ER is just weird with high level damage formulas; it doesn't work exactly like DS3, after all. I don't have the character to test how damage is increasing, but I'm more than happy to take my 133 physical damage character and give both of yours a whack to see how major the damage mitigation bump actually is. Maybe then someone can fill us in on the offense.

(as a note you will have to summon me because otherwise your character will get downscaled and be no use in the discussion).

[Dedprice]

Thayonn a écrit :

Dedprice a écrit :

:I all of this is somewhat facts except i dont find duels quicker at 200. i reallllly wanna see how theyll end faster than 120 when 1 move ends a duel at 120. nothing could possibly be faster than that. additionally..damage is lower. i think people see AR's higher and think its quicker but nah, defenses start catching up around then like ive previously stated.

I've done pvp at levels 10, 40, 60, 80, 90, 120, 150, 200, 250, 500, and 713. One thing that remains consistent across the board is the higher I go the more often I one shot people. Your logic doesn't add up.

this is the fatest cap i ever heard.

[Dedprice]

ressenmacher a écrit :

Dedprice a écrit :

listen ill make it as simple as possible because saying "this is that" and "that is this" is hard to believe. i have two characters. one at 140(?) and one at 240(?) or roughly around those levels. you can hit them both with whatever you want and ill even respec them to have the exact same stats. the damage will be lower on the higher.

Of course the damage will be lower on the higher character. The thing in question is whether the damage decrease on the higher character matches or exceeds the increase in attack a character also gets as they increase in level.

Dedprice a écrit :

or we can skip that or whatever you want to do. Im genuinely asking as well if you have been past the 200 level for pvp.

Are you reading the responses I give you? This was asked and answered previously in the thread:

ressenmacher a écrit :

Only in DS3, where I used a level 250 character for a while. Damage was absolutely higher.

Dedprice a écrit :

another reason is just defense levels from ~runes~ because if you let players decide entirely what defenses they had, theyd max out whatever the majority of the game had, as soon as possible or respec every time adversity and diversity came.

The formulas for calculating Fire Defense on Rune Level are as follows:
Level 1 - 71 --> 40 + 60*((Lvl+79 - 1) / 149)
Level 72 - 91 --> 100 + 20*((Lvl+79 - 150) / 20)
Level 92 - 161 --> 120 + 15*((Lvl+79 - 170) / 70)
Level 162 - 713 --> 135 + 20*((Lvl+79 - 240) / 552)
The formulas for calculating Fire Defense on Vigor are as follows:
Level 1 - 30 --> 20*(Lvl / 30)
Level 31 - 40 --> 20 + 20*((Lvl - 30) / 10)
Level 41 - 60 --> 40 + 20*((Lvl - 40) / 20)
Level 61 - 99 --> 60 + 10*((Lvl - 60) / 39)

as you can see, while sure leveling VIGOR increases fire defense, it doesnt touch the nat increases from rune levels alone, instead its just a bonus. the true defense comes from the leveling itself and with each new cap.

Yes, that's my point: that the flat defense boosts from being higher level shouldn't be enough to overcome the damage increases from being able to start scaling secondary and tertiary stats. That's why I looked at physical defenses, because I calced based on a faith build and thus I was only looking at the rune level increases to defense.

But hey, I could be wrong. Maybe ER is just weird with high level damage formulas; it doesn't work exactly like DS3, after all. I don't have the character to test how damage is increasing, but I'm more than happy to take my 133 physical damage character and give both of yours a whack to see how major the damage mitigation bump actually is. Maybe then someone can fill us in on the offense.

(as a note you will have to summon me because otherwise your character will get downscaled and be no use in the discussion).

sorry i was gaming and kinda started ignoring notifications. you can add me here or on discord and well set it up.

[Dedprice]

zero a écrit :

Gnarrang a écrit :

the solution to invasions. Go to lvl 200 and only lvl vigor to 35 max... im crying laughing lol

"not only does this not resolve invasions, i also put my vig to a level where i can be one shot"

you too can come test the fact that higher level doesnt = more damage

[Dedprice]

for anyone believing 35 vigor at higher levels is low, youre welcome to add me on discord and try to prove to me that you can one shot my char at 240 with again, 1500 health. if its so simple do it :/

the only rule is dual striking with a bleed build off a bleed proc, ontop buffs, will not count considering its technically far from a one shot, ill allow you to test the damage but i dont count it.

Dedprice#5264

[zero]

Dedprice a écrit :

zero a écrit :

"not only does this not resolve invasions, i also put my vig to a level where i can be one shot"

you too can come test the fact that higher level doesnt = more damage

yes, but that doesn't resolve the issue with invasions, which happen between 1-200, which have to deal with the issue.

your remark is just "it doesn't happen at high level" cause yeah, but 150 everyone has, on average, beaten the game, so the power balance is even.

[cridus]

Rommel a écrit :

When I don't care about being invaded I play online. When I'm at certain spots
and don't wish to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with I go off line. Simple....

what's the point of going offline, when you can simply not summon? are you aware of the fact that you can't be invaded while playing solo, in this game? (unless you use the taunter's tongue, of course)

[King of Games]

cridus a écrit :

Rommel a écrit :

When I don't care about being invaded I play online. When I'm at certain spots
and don't wish to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with I go off line. Simple....:praisesun:

what's the point of going offline, when you can simply not summon? are you aware of the fact that you can't be invaded while playing solo, in this game? (unless you use the taunter's tongue, of course)

it does get rid of all those stupid messages.

[cridus]

King of Games a écrit :

it does get rid of all those stupid messages.

ok but he explicitly said he does it to not get invaded...