Madness Build ideas for PvE?

[Augoeides]

So, I just finally finished the game game and got 100% of the Achievements. So, as per tradition when I play these games, I can now finally start making new characters, to mess with the game to its full extent, and decide how I ultimately feel about it (my first playthrough never leaves a good impression of the game on me, due to how I try not to spoil content and usually stick to one build, without looking up enemy weaknesses).

Anyway, ever since I discovered that Madness was a thing, and the Vyke's Spear, I've been wanting to make a build around it (unfortunately, even though I discovered that area really early, I was running a Dex boi Claw build). Apparently, there aren't a lot of things that inflict Madness, so all of them basically revolve around the spear.

I have a good idea of what I need to hunt down, but now of what armors (the Black Dumpling hat seems good though) and extra gear I should snag. The problem mainly lies in that, apparently Madness is really fun in PvP, but apparently lackluster in PvE. When I beat the game, my playstyle heavily revolved around Bleed/Frostbite, occasionally with Poison/Rot on some enemies (useful on the dragon Bosses).

I don't know how effective Madness will be on Bosses, but if it's anything like Bleed/Frostbite, quite a few Bosses will be immune to it. More importantly, my previous playstyle would knock at least -20% of the Bosses health off on proc, where Madness by itself would be -10%.

So, in short, if I decide to use Madness with Vyke's Spear, what would compliment it that well in PvE? I assume inflicting Frostbite in some way (maybe a secondary weapon, that scales with Faith and can be coated?), although I don't want to copy my last playstyle too much.

Or maybe I should just spec fully into Madness damaging spells, and only rely on the spear when I can safely get in hits?

[juicy]

sadly madness builds are kind of sad in PvE.


They just aren't as viable due to madness only working in certain cases

Don't fall into the trap of arcane for madness.

[Augoeides]

Originally posted by Liquid Juicy:

They just aren't as viable due to madness only working in certain cases

Don't fall into the trap of arcane for madness.

Is the scaling on it bad? I read somewhere that with like 60+ Arcane, you can proc a lot of statuses in like 2 or 3 hits. I want to try a proper status run at some point (maybe with daggers), but I'm a little burned out on that, after using claws for like 120 hours, lol.

[Enderspoons]

Unfortunately, the Madness status basically works on absolute nada in PVE, aside from enemy Tarnished (and even then their resistances tend to be high enough that trying to go for status procs is just wasting your time).

The Frenzied Flame incantations are still decent for their raw damage output and other characteristics, though they all suffer the same downside of having slow casting speed:
- Fire is a good damage type that works on many things
- The Flame of Frenzy is a decent shotgun spell that gets enemies out of your face
- Frenzied Burst is an excellent sniping spell that has the best range of any incantation
- Unendurable Frenzy can burst down everything around you so long as you have the MP and Madness resist to keep holding it
- Howl of Shabriri can be used to quickly proc Madness on yourself, gaining a temporary attack boost from the Black Dumpling hat
- Inescapable Frenzy gives you another reason to pick the other four options, as it is basically a Tarnished-only grab spell

[juicy]

Originally posted by Augoeides:

Originally posted by Liquid Juicy:

They just aren't as viable due to madness only working in certain cases

Don't fall into the trap of arcane for madness.

Is the scaling on it bad? I read somewhere that with like 60+ Arcane, you can proc a lot of statuses in like 2 or 3 hits. I want to try a proper status run at some point (maybe with daggers), but I'm a little burned out on that, after using claws for like 120 hours, lol.

the arcane scaling for madness has been nerfed months ago with good reason.

Just go full on faith if you plan on using madness spells

[Augoeides]

Actually found a video a guy did recently, where he tried to do a run with Frenzy spells only, and I can tell it will be suffering, but unlike him, I would have the spear to back me up.

Also, the Millicent's Prosthesis apparently adds extra damage for "some spells". Do you think that applies to spells that hit multiple times, like with Flame of Frenzy?

I should also point out, that I'm looking for stuff to compliment the Madness build. As mentioned in my original post, this could mean a secondary Faith scaling weapon that can be coated, or maybe a specific build for the Vyke's Spear.

[jorgandir]

My current playthrough is with a Frenzied Flame prophet, and I use the Dragon Communion seal that you find in the Fringefolk Hero's Grave because it scales incantations with both faith AND arcane, therefore you get the full damage output from your Frenzied incantations while also increasing the Madness status application.

Meanwhile, I have a Sacred Erdsteel Dagger with the Sacred Blade ash of war which scales the damage double with faith. While the Sacred Blade projectile doesn't get full damage with half of your points dumped into Arcane, it does buff the dagger with extra holy damage AND makes it a scary little thing that does surprisingly decent damage for its size and quickness. This would also work similarly with the Flame infusion.

You can make Frenzy work in both PvE and PVP pretty darn well, if you're crafty. And Vyke's Warspear works pretty well if you're willing to invest the stats in strength and dex (which I'm not for my build.)

I can definitely recommend Faith/Arcane for Flame of Frenzy builds!

PS: If you hold, say, the Frenzied Flame/Giant's seal in the hand opposite your Dragon Communion seal (dual wielding seals) you'll also get the flat flame damage bonus to the associated incantation that accompanies them, even if you're still casting with the Dragon Communion seal (which has much better scaling than the Frenzied Flame seal.)

Happy apocalypse-making!

[Augoeides]

Originally posted by jorgandir:

My current playthrough is with a Frenzied Flame prophet, and I use the Dragon Communion seal that you find in the Fringefolk Hero's Grave because it scales incantations with both faith AND arcane, therefore you get the full damage output from your Frenzied incantations while also increasing the Madness status application.

I was told that Arcane wasn't worth it, but maybe I'll give that a try. Although, I wasn't planning on using anything that scaled with Arcane, but if I can multi-trigger Madnesss, I suppose it will be worth it.

Originally posted by jorgandir:

Meanwhile, I have a Sacred Erdsteel Dagger with the Sacred Blade ash of war which scales the damage double with faith. While the Sacred Blade projectile doesn't get full damage with half of your points dumped into Arcane, it does buff the dagger with extra holy damage AND makes it a scary little thing that does surprisingly decent damage for its size and quickness. This would also work similarly with the Flame infusion.

Just picked this up actually, wasn't aware it would be good for something like that. I was going to save it for my true cleric build, but that sounds pretty nice. I prefer the quicker weapons anyway, so this might be good to fall back on.

Originally posted by jorgandir:

You can make Frenzy work in both PvE and PVP pretty darn well, if you're crafty. And Vyke's Warspear works pretty well if you're willing to invest the stats in strength and dex (which I'm not for my build.)

I can definitely recommend Faith/Arcane for Flame of Frenzy builds!

PS: If you hold, say, the Frenzied Flame/Giant's seal in the hand opposite your Dragon Communion seal (dual wielding seals) you'll also get the flat flame damage bonus to the associated incantation that accompanies them, even if you're still casting with the Dragon Communion seal (which has much better scaling than the Frenzied Flame seal.)

Happy apocalypse-making!

I was planning on using the Godslayer's Seal, with the Frenzied Flame Seal in my main hand, for when I just want to go nuts with spells. As for Vyke's spear, I wasn't going to fully spec into Str/Dex. At least, not until I figure out how far into the game I want to go and what my final stats should be. Right now, I'm on my way to pickup Millicent's Prosthesis. So, that should allow me to at least equip it now, and see how things go.