Should I even bother with Vigor?

[Synka]

I've seen others play with 60 vig, dragoncrest+2 and some of the strongest armor in the game and they were getting roflstomped after a single mistake (dodged a quarter second too early - insta death). Should I just not bother leveling it at all and instead go full damage?

[gun goes pew pew]

a little lvl grind beforehand and vigor+damage won the game for me, then all that's left is learning boss attack patterns and it's easy

[Ice-Nine]

Yes, you should bother with Vigor. Pick either 40 or 58, depending on your comfort level. Either one is enough to complete the game, it just depends on your playstyle and level of comfort. Returns beyond 58 suffer dramatically.

[deteringwilliam]

Originally posted by Scuzz:

Originally posted by deteringwilliam:

Yeah, don't bother with vigor, totally unnecessary!

- the pvp trolls

I know, this is such an easy game that putting anything into health is just a waste of time. In fact you really don't need to level up at all.

the joke is that they are telling you to avoid vigor so they can one shot you, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just danced around it. {/spoiler]

[Backstabba]

Originally posted by capybaras are cool:

vigor is more of a stat tax than anything. you gotta pay it or the game is the most punishing annoying ♥♥♥♥ which i guess some people like. but trying to finish the game with 15 vigor takes a long time.

Yep and sadly it was also an issue that started in Dark Souls 2(Adp/Agility) then moved to Dark souls 3's vigor.

However most people ignored it then in Dark Souls 3 due to the low vigor soft cap(28).

So this isn't even a new issue just an old one metastasizing to become much worse in every single soulslike game fromsoft has released since DS2.

[Heater]

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

Yes, you should bother with Vigor. Pick either 40 or 58, depending on your comfort level. Either one is enough to complete the game, it just depends on your playstyle and level of comfort. Returns beyond 58 suffer dramatically.

Yeah no reason to go past 58, don't know why so many go to 60. Also no reason to push str dex etc to 99, returns after 80 are very low.

[FIRE]

Originally posted by Backstabba:

Originally posted by capybaras are cool:

vigor is more of a stat tax than anything. you gotta pay it or the game is the most punishing annoying ♥♥♥♥ which i guess some people like. but trying to finish the game with 15 vigor takes a long time.

Yep and sadly it was also an issue that started in Dark Souls 2(Adp/Agility) then moved to Dark souls 3's vigor.

However most people ignored it then in Dark Souls 3 due to the low vigor soft cap(28).

So this isn't even a new issue just an old one metastasizing to become much worse in every single soulslike game fromsoft has released since DS2.

If you don't level vigor or endurance in DS1 it will still be the same issue as in any other souls game, it will be too punishing. There was always a bare minimum stat investment you need to do as a new player if you wanted a not too punishing experience.

[Xenos]

The parts you aren't seeing is the person with only 30 Vigor instantly dying to a single attack instead of needing to get stunlocked to die

[Synka]

Originally posted by Heater:

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

Yes, you should bother with Vigor. Pick either 40 or 58, depending on your comfort level. Either one is enough to complete the game, it just depends on your playstyle and level of comfort. Returns beyond 58 suffer dramatically.

Yeah no reason to go past 58, don't know why so many go to 60. Also no reason to push str dex etc to 99, returns after 80 are very low. :praisesun:

round number good.

Well from what people said here I guess I will look into vigor, but I still feel the game is punishing to the point that vigor doesnt help much. If you get hit, sure you could grind and get vigor to "maybe" survive a hit here and there. But in the end you still have to learn to never get hit to eventually beat the boss/camp. Since heals are very limited

[zero]

Originally posted by Synka:

Originally posted by Heater:

Yeah no reason to go past 58, don't know why so many go to 60. Also no reason to push str dex etc to 99, returns after 80 are very low.

round number good.

Well from what people said here I guess I will look into vigor, but I still feel the game is punishing to the point that vigor doesnt help much. If you get hit, sure you could grind and get vigor to "maybe" survive a hit here and there. But in the end you still have to learn to never get hit to eventually beat the boss/camp. Since heals are very limited

i mean yes, this is an arpg, unlike a jrpg in which hits are unavoidable, and therefore the game gives you multitudes of ways to mitigate damage, healing is to recover from a failure in this style of game.

but its still better to be able to survive 4-5 hits in a row, vs just dying instantly to one attack

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Synka:

Originally posted by zero:

i mean with 60 vig you're not gonna die in a single hit to anything aside from deathblight.

i have no idea what you've "seen" but instant death at that level of vig, especially when in good gear, isn't really possible

60 vigor, 60 endurance, dragoncrest talisman +2, erdtree's favor +2, bull goat set, crimson amber +2
Still getting killed in 1-shot stunlock combos (2-3 chains hits, undodgeable after first) by nearly any enemy - thats what I have seen on friends streaming the game.

They've beaten the game in a "segmented hitless" style, aka they beat every boss without getting hit but didnt reset the whole game if they died from that hit (which was always the case)
They equiped the above mentioned equipment to showcase why they were playing that way, to me

P.S.: I know that isnt "the best possible" you can do in terms of negation, but it was plenty to convince me that tanking is not an option until you can get things from endgame (like +2 talismans)

No. This is impossible. It is, literally, actually 100% impossible unless you are in some high NG at which point you obviously are going to get nuked because boss dmg scales a ton by that point. I've played trough the game at RL1 and there are only two enemies that I actually can't survive being 1 shot (and I'm pretty sure I can survive one of them if I tried which is Gurranq, but I never tried to tank it). The only real issue was the final incarnation of the magic dragon at the end of Ranni's questline which is probably the hardest hitting enemy in the game. Of course, I'm not counting Malenia's dance at all because that is such an absurd standout it doesn't warrant being grouped with balance discussions of this nature, otherwise the take is 2 enemies in the game at level 1 can 1-shot you.

Also don't use Erdtree Favor, not even the +2 variant. That is one of the worst talisman in the entire game if you actually look at the mathematical value of the accessory. This includes for survivability purposes. It is trash. Crimsom Amber is not much better and much weaker than the Life +3 ring in DS3. Use those slots for something that actually will help such as the Ritual Shield Talisman and something else you might want.

If you really want to improve how tanky you are then you need to use some incantations which means getting at least a bit of faith. Some of the defensive buffs are quite absurd. You can use shrim/crab and other options, too.

[cl656]

The game is balanced around the idea that most people will pump vigor. You're just making the game more difficult for yourself by not doing so.