On twinking

[Dragonirian]

The discussions on this topic often go sideways because people cannot agree on what this term means.
Traditionally term "twinking" comes from mmorpgs and means "having gear on a low level character normally unobtainable at this level".
A good example would be a shadow fang sword in wow - a very rare drop from a dungeon that has a change of shooting a strong projectile at your target every hit. It required a lvl 19 to equip, which is the top level at the first level bracket in battlegrounds. To grind for that sword and stay at lvl 19 is basically impossible so it was grinded by high level characters and transferred/sold to lvl 19 rogues to dominate the bg. Those low level rogues are a fine example of what is a twink character.

This carried to dark souls well because the "normally unobtainable" criteria fits. It's a linear game with boss gates that block the ability to invade in the zone after the boss is defeated, therefore any gear obtained after that boss and used in the area before it is an example of twinking - the gear had to be either traded or cheated in.
It was possible to skip certain bosses and get the gear while retaining the ability to invade in certain areas like undead burg or high wall of lothric (this one by triggering the dancer boss to be active and not killing it), but the overall linear and gated progression that turns your ability to invade off the further you progress is an example of an environment where the term "twinking" can exist and be applied appropriately.

Now with Elden Ring devs took another approach entirely. The focus was accessibility and ability of the player to explore around and get stronger tools if they ever feel stuck. With the big open world it was not feasible to make the progression gated therefore ability to invade does not get turned off in a zone even if all the bosses are cleared. With the addition of near/far invasion function invaders don't even have to be in a location to invade in it, they just need to have a site of grace activated there.
This leads to the next factor - progressing does not stop you from invading previous areas at all. Meaning if you have the skill and passion you can in fact beat the game and access all the weapons and magic and still be able to invade limgrave.

This means that all the criteria for twinking in dark souls was thrown out of the window:
- invading with the later than the boss gear
- having normally unobtainable later gear in an earlier location
- returning to an early area to invade with late game progression via an exploit/oversight that would make locations invadeable again

Those can not happen in Elden Ring at all now because there are no walls and gates that blocked you from doing so in previous games.
Therefore there is a notion that twinking does not exist in Elden Ring since every single player has the exact same opportunity to obtain and use any piece of gear in multiplayer.

Several people started to try and use the original term to refer to knowledge about the game. "You know where to get stuff, therefore you are twinking" is the most prevalent one I saw. I do believe it is incorrect to apply the term that way because it leads to a slippery slope when everything in the game being labeled twinking. Knowledge of the game ties strongly to skill and with this you using a thrusting weapon type like a halberd to rollcatch or a strong aow that is both obtainable early and viable the whole game due to damage like the Bloody Slash can be labeled twinking as well.
This quickly falls into "having any sort of viable advantage at all".

And due to twinking being the term referring to unfair advantage gained trough unintended means, it collides strongly against the ER design which allows you to get and use said gear fairly.

So to avoid the accusations of unfair play a different term must be used to properly convey the situation in the new game environment.

[Sparhawk 59]

Twink is still the best term as they can still get friends to drop them all they need to make a low level build and a merchant mod to get stuff. You will always have twink and ganks in the ds series

[Dragonirian]

Originally posted by Sparhawk 57:

Twink is still the best term as they can still get friends to drop them all they need to make a low level build and a merchant mod to get stuff. You will always have twink and ganks in the ds series

The problem here is that is is hard, or even impossible to distinguish legit or traded stuff by it's existence alone.
Sure if -host- has the end game stuff and is still low level in limgrave with his buddies going trough the bosses, he was dropped the items. But with everything else, it actually impossible to tell and the end result difference is non-existent.

[Dragonirian]

Originally posted by PK_Thunder:

It doesn't matter if you use the real definition, namely the one derived from wow. You won't get intellectual honesty from carebears. You will only ever get bad faith and lies.

Regardless of what they say they mean, when they use the word "Twink" what they really mean is "beat me with gear I don't have."

True, this, hovewer might be picked up at face value by people who just believe them there is an issue of unfairness while the carebear just screams "unfair, doesn't count!" in frustration.

[Washing Machine]

You should still assume people who are legit new and in lower levels aren't all sitting there deliberately low level in endgame gear.

Twinking still means you're trying to get an advantage that you expect the host not to have. No point sugarcoating it.

[paulaus333]

I think it's not worth arguing about anymore. We know that some players are more skilled and have more knowledge than others in FromSoft games. It's likely that we have friends who play at low soul / rune level if we don't do so ourselves. We know that these people are often just playing through the game normally at low level because they don't need to level up.

In the last thread, people admitted to 'twinking' in order to grief, frustrate and humiliate other players for their own amusement. Others would not admit to this.

The general litmus test is when people:

1. Deliberately gain items / gear / healing with the intention of targeting people who don't have the same kit, in order to take advantage of what they know is an equipment and skill imbalance
2. Keep their level low for the explicit purpose of invading people barely out of the tutorial area
3. Invade in low level areas, knowing that sl1 / rl1 (or otherwise low level) players with high skill are in the minority and that 90% or more of the people they encounter there will be new players without experience, with or without bodyguards (OL phantoms).

Notice I speak of intention and purpose above - we can't possibly know the intention of all low level invaders. But THEY know their intentions. THEY know when they're doing what they're accused of, if they are.

So, by all means play through the game at low level if that's what you enjoy. But, don't be a jerk to noobs even though the game gives you that freedom. Discouraging new players from participating means less people to invade for level-appropriate people.

If you can't help yourself, well then Merry Twinkmas! :)

[Enderspoons]

By your given strict sense of "Twink,", a low-level player can wander pretty much anywhere in Elden Ring and still have the ability to invade in early-level areas — even the two-Rune gate locking one out of Leyndell is no barrier to one with sufficient skill; thus, your strict Twink does not and cannot exist.

However, it still feels like the Twinking spirit is running rampant. Why would that be, I wonder?
Even though you can basically run anywhere, Elden Ring does have a soft sequence of events that it nudges you into doing: Limgrave, Weeping Peninsula, Stormveil, Siofra River, Liurnia, Ainsel River, Raya Lucaria, Caelid, and so on.
Each zone of the game in sequence has slightly higher area scaling than the last (with a couple that allow for wiggle room by wandering into optional dead-ends), and as such multiple people (e.g. the folks at Fextralife) have player walkthroughs through the game that can make Elden Ring seem like it's on rails.

However, since Elden Ring's natural progression is indeed the mere suggestion that it is, it is more effortless than ever for the determined twinks of yesterday to just waltz 50 feet from Limgrave to Caelid (or, with some more effort, to Mohg or even to Malenia), pick up whatever random litter is lying around, and then turn around and start whooping poor noobs left and right, who probably have no idea Liurnia or Leyndell or Caelid even exist.
All completely "legally," as it were.

What word can you use, indeed, for someone who can exploit their knowledge and skill to sequence-break the game in a way that no new player would reasonably be able to counter, with that power being enabled for them every step of the way?

[Xxanno]

No, twinking exist in Elden Ring as far as i know. There is no way to get in or past lyndell royal capital's walls before you get two great runes. Even waygates won't work. So while less, it do still exist.

[PK_Thunder]

Originally posted by Washing Machine:

Twinking still means you're trying to get an advantage that you expect the host not to have. No point sugarcoating it.

See what I mean, OP? Falsehoods from start to finish.

What you're talking about is demonizing playing optimally in hopes of overcoming a one sided advantage that the host is guaranteed to have. Numbers.

[Sparhawk 59]

Originally posted by Xxanno:

No, twinking exist in Elden Ring as far as i know. There is no way to get in or past lyndell royal capital's walls before you get two great runes. Even waygates won't work. So while less, it do still exist.

Yes their is a skip a friend tried it last night and he did it!!

[Xxanno]

Originally posted by Sparhawk 57:

Originally posted by Xxanno:

No, twinking exist in Elden Ring as far as i know. There is no way to get in or past lyndell royal capital's walls before you get two great runes. Even waygates won't work. So while less, it do still exist.

Yes their is a skip a friend tried it last night and he did it!!

Without glitches or cheats I should mention.

[Enderspoons]

Originally posted by Xxanno:

No, twinking exist in Elden Ring as far as i know. There is no way to get in or past lyndell royal capital's walls before you get two great runes. Even waygates won't work. So while less, it do still exist.

Well, that gate does technically exist, you can just satisfy its requirements through normal gameplay and then still get away with all the twinking business you like later, after gaining access.

[Dark Angel]

Originally posted by Sparhawk 57:

Originally posted by Xxanno:

No, twinking exist in Elden Ring as far as i know. There is no way to get in or past lyndell royal capital's walls before you get two great runes. Even waygates won't work. So while less, it do still exist.

Yes their is a skip a friend tried it last night and he did it!!

But a true twink will always go for 4 talisman slots, and this means to beat two Shardbearers. (Enia gives the third talisman pouch after this) . Btw: it's not hard to beat Rennala on RL15, have done it many times.

[Sparhawk 59]

Originally posted by Dark Angel:

Originally posted by Sparhawk 57:

Yes their is a skip a friend tried it last night and he did it!!

But a true twink will always go for 4 talisman slots, and this means to beat two Shardbearers. (Enia gives the third talisman pouch after this) . Btw: it's not hard to beat Rennala on RL15, have done it many times.

Also the balance of ER is not like DS3 so getting an over levelled friend to help them is easy

[Washing Machine]

Originally posted by PK_Thunder:

Originally posted by Washing Machine:

Twinking still means you're trying to get an advantage that you expect the host not to have. No point sugarcoating it.

See what I mean, OP? Falsehoods from start to finish.

What you're talking about is demonizing playing optimally in hopes of overcoming a one sided advantage that the host is guaranteed to have. Numbers.

So you deny trying to have an advantage as you being demonized, while you demonize the host for having an assumed advantage?

Sounds like you're looking for some balanced pvp setting or something in an invasion if you think you're just trying to make up for their perceived advantages. I don't really trust some randoms as the arbiter of where the invasion balance becomes fair.

It's almost like invasions have always been an unbalanced mess in these games to begin with. If it really hurts your feelings to call a twink a twink, tough.

[Sparhawk 59]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1245620/discussions/0/3729575504105116322/ prime example