Установить Steam
войти
|
язык
简体中文 (упрощенный китайский)
繁體中文 (традиционный китайский)
日本語 (японский)
한국어 (корейский)
ไทย (тайский)
Български (болгарский)
Čeština (чешский)
Dansk (датский)
Deutsch (немецкий)
English (английский)
Español - España (испанский)
Español - Latinoamérica (латиноам. испанский)
Ελληνικά (греческий)
Français (французский)
Italiano (итальянский)
Bahasa Indonesia (индонезийский)
Magyar (венгерский)
Nederlands (нидерландский)
Norsk (норвежский)
Polski (польский)
Português (португальский)
Português-Brasil (бразильский португальский)
Română (румынский)
Suomi (финский)
Svenska (шведский)
Türkçe (турецкий)
Tiếng Việt (вьетнамский)
Українська (украинский)
Сообщить о проблеме с переводом
Правила обсуждений
Пожаловаться
i thought about this
is there actually a reference in the game that describes how radagon fought the giants?
the game tells us marika and godfrey went to war with the giants
and i know you believe marika having fought the giants is essentially the same, but is there somewhere an explict statement that radagon fought the giants?
Bigotry is not in this game. Bigotry is not a focus of Japanese mythology, at least not one that Fromsoftware wishes to express at the forefront. Often, mythological beings of virtue are also without vice, save one. Bigotry is never that one. It's always some other tragic flaw.
No pedestal... I just think I know more about the subject and can therefore say a whole lot more. It's all mythology; I don't place that any higher than reality, certainly.
there's other stuff at the church itself but i have no idea how to actually get that info, you're gonna have to open the game for that one.
there is PLENTY if bigotry in this game, thats perfectly normal in a game with mutliple different conflicting factions.
varree is a prime example, though we only find out later on in the lakes of it, when he is firmly held in his issues with the two fingers and those relating to them
It's often used pejoratively as a reductive take of somebody else's reality, argument, etc.
So if you want to reduce everything to something simple for your own brain, sure. That's not what I'm here for though...
there is nothing wrong with pointing out a characters dislike and using words that mean just that.
we SHOULD be reducing everything to its actual meanings, that is once again how we get working theorys.
the most logical working theory is the theory that makes the least leaps in logic.
i, to my understanding, blelieve there is nothing in game that states radagon has EVER worked with the giants in any way, aside from cursing THE Fire Giant to forever tend the flame.
equally to my understanding: nothing ive ever read stated the giants and numens are related in any way, correct me if im wrong.
that second one would be a big concern, due to the eternal cities down below.
so, using the in game lore that is provided to us, i cannot say that the TC's theory works, as nothing states any form of relation or partnership between radagon and the giants besides outright war.
Then we sought to explore other arguments like the connection between Radagon and Fire Giants, or the reasoning behind the war against FGs. For the sake of discussion, of course I'm going to fixate on an attribute being applied which can only loosely fit into the narrative of the game.
You're focused on the "word" while I'm focused on what it represents, and how metaphors are presented in this game do not tactfully imply the attributes you are ascribing. It would necessitate much more subtext than is provided by the game, and thus is not a real thing in the game beyond your interpretations. Words have connotation, and also other words which nearly but not exactly match in meaning. I don't believe that one is tactful, and is just being used here incorrectly. Therefore, the implication of the primary antagonist warring against the Fire Giants because he was an ol' Bigot is ignoring the fact that Radagon formed a plan to use the primordial flame and have Melina guide the player to it, to use it in on the path to becoming Elden Lord.
It can be as simple as that, without bigotry being involved. In the conversation about reducing things to their base parts and theory-crafting has evolved from that, I believe attributing bigotry is over-complicating matters entirely. Does that more plainly describe my position, here?
imma use this quote to start off my ramblings ...
it is true, there no such statement
the reason i am entertaining this theory tho is mainly because marikas reign starts a downward spiral once radagon enters the picture ... and its pretty clear that they are not working together by the time we arrive
i went over all of turtle popes dialogue and the only thing that is clear is that radagon entered carian territory as the host of an army of the golden order, and the way i see it turtle pope only references the conflict with the carian royals, not the one with the giants
so is this a seperate army to godfreys, did radagon also lead this army against the giants?
both possible, but again no clear indication that radagon (if you entertain the possibility that he was once seperate from marika) actually fought against the giants
the more i look into this theory the more apparent it becomes just how ambiguous radagon (and his origin for that matter) really is ... in truth, so far i cant find anything in the game that would imply that radagon was even a thing BEFORE the war with the giants has ended
some other things i find suspicious
-he does no defeat rennala
he actually marries her and in doing so he fails to establish the golden order in liurnia
-he even studies carian sorcery - which has its roots in astrology and we know astrologers used to work together with the giants
-all his children with rennala work against the golden order
only exception is radahn, but radahn actually aspires to godwyn the golden not his father
-he reforms the golden order with his fundamentalist believes based on his studies in the academy of caria; which might be responsible for the shunning of everything related to the crucible and banishment of godfrey and thus further weakening marika influence (although is have no evidence for the second part); maybe (and this is a big maybe) that is what ignited the rebellion of the godskins as well; and the attack of gransax and the dragons
-even miquella refuses the new golden order as a path into a better future on the basis that it failed to purify his sister, which would also strenghten the golden order (possibly having doubts about his fathers intentions?)
-he denies us, the tarnished, access to the erdtree even though the greater will seems to be okay with it
something is up with that guy (perhaps he is doing all this unwillingly?)
now, there is no hard evidence that he is hostile to marika before she smashed the elden ring, but certainly enough has gone pretty wrong under his reign as elden lord to habour suspicions
meanwhile all has been pretty smooth sailing when marika was with godfrey
i am not hung up on the fact he is somehow related to the giants
it very well could be that he was around before the war with the giants and even fought them
maybe he has been cursed by them and his hair wasnt the only thing that changed
---
i am always open for suggestions and encourage countering my theory but "radagon is marika" is not convincing me ... who or whatever he might be, i think he is sabotaging the golden order
We fulfill Radagon/Marika by becoming Elden Lord, no? That was Marika's wish. She also wished to unleash Radagon and do other things. Her "leal hound" no? What you're proposing is a brain fart.
She had to deceive the Greater Will. Something about "Order" is inherently to be feared, as much as anything else. When we inform Goldmask of this duplicity, he shares the means to perfect Order. Does he understand what Marika wanted to accomplish? Did the Greater Will hear this through Goldmask, and then hand you their phone number to call once you've cleaned house? Hmm, I'll look into it.
Order healing description: "One of the incantations of the Golden Order fundamentalists.
Used by hunters of Those Who Live in Death.
Alleviates death blight buildup.
The noble Goldmask lamented what had become of the hunters.
How easy it is for learning and learnedness to be reduced to the
ravings of fanatics; all the good and the great wanted, in their
foolishness, was an absolute evil to contend with.
Does such a notion exist in the fundamentals of Order?"
He hears that Radagon is Marika and discovers what was forgotten by the Elden Beast: Regression and Causality. In shattering the Ring - the form taken by the Elden Beast within Elden Lords - Regression and Causality became decoupled. Then, seemingly eternity passes before Tarnished begin rising from the depths - the Greater Will calls you to merely "Become Elden Lord" itself not knowing their true identity.
Goldmask is all about the same things the Greater Will cares about. If this critical piece of information was what he was missing this whole time, then we can surely solve all of the problems of The Lands Between. Right? Just revise our philosophy a little bit. Unfortunately, it requires utter devotion and only those loyal to Order will benefit. However, is that such a bad thing, if Order is perfect?
While the order itself can be perfect, it means little in practice. That's why his ending is technically "wrong" or "identical in brevity" - you aren't helping the unfaithful, or the wild, or the nature of living. Those problems are all thanks to the Greater Will's influence - something Goldmask does not survive long enough to discover.
There are Outer Gods who'd spring at the chance to claim the lands, and your choice has to take that into consideration. So why not run off with the princess, to a place where you feel secure and true to yourself? Do you want to keep fighting down there?
In short, the similar-feeling endings are that way due to having valid arguments for and against, while the Ranni and Frenzied Flame endings are your choice to either burn it all, or walk away. Both are extreme.