Spear Talisman & Thrusting Weapons

[Lenox]

Do you think it's still worthwhile to use thrusting weapons without this talisman? Should this talisman always be used if a thrusting weapon is used? Why or why not?

[Fineous🔥]

Nah specially if you use Mogh trident i use


https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Godfrey+Icon

It does buff a lot of frenzy/black fame and giant dad pyromancies and the rancors.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Shard+of+Alexander

To buff 15% Bloodboon Ritual

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Dragoncrest+Shield+Talisman

To always have 45% phsycal damage negation

And

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Erdtree%27s+Favor

To get a respectable amount of stats and enough equip load to use a mix of medium/ultra heavy armor and still retain light roll.

Both talismans +2 and sometimes i replace shard of Alexandor with the big incantation/sorcery buff s. Also elemental resistance ones if needed.

Never used the spear talisman for anything.

[Narm]

I find the damage to be excessive when dueling with thrusting weapons AND the talisman. Might be me personally, but I like seeing all the strategies and whatnot that people have come up with so I intentionally nerf my dueling builds' damage outputs.

The combo is good for invading where you need high damage to finish somebody quickly before they flask though. You'll be taking advantage of the talisman a lot with how speedy thrusting weapons are and how easy it is to get enough hits in to poise break. They're still good without it though. Just depends on the situation and what you're trying to do.

In PVE, it's just a matter of how much damage you want to do and whether or not there's a more appropriate talisman. Might need more defense or weapon art damage instead of counter poke damage or something.

[Lenox]

Narm lähetti viestin:

I find the damage to be excessive when dueling with thrusting weapons AND the talisman. Might be me personally, but I like seeing all the strategies and whatnot that people have come up with so I intentionally nerf my dueling builds' damage outputs.

The combo is good for invading where you need high damage to finish somebody quickly before they flask though. You'll be taking advantage of the talisman a lot with how speedy thrusting weapons are and how easy it is to get enough hits in to poise break. They're still good without it though. Just depends on the situation and what you're trying to do.

In PVE, it's just a matter of how much damage you want to do and whether or not there's a more appropriate talisman. Might need more defense or weapon art damage instead of counter poke damage or something.

Interesting. Makes sense. I don't use spears much and kinda been wondering this since Dark Souls 1. From what I've tested in both games, spears do less damage than other weapons without the talisman. So I was never sure if it was worth it to even bother without the talisman equipped. But I also haven't tried strong variants like Vyke's War Spear or dual-spears.

[Gob]

For me its the choice between the Spear Talisman and the Rotten Winged Sword Insignia.

The latter seems better when you are using a quick weapon that does lots of hits very quickly and so you can reach the needed number for the buff.

The Spear Talisman is a more reliable damage buff for a slower poke weapon. If you do land a hit as a counterattack then you can get a meaty damage boost that looks like blood loss just proced.

[Lenox]

𝕱𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖔𝖚𝖘 lähetti viestin:

Nah specially if you use Mogh trident i use


https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Godfrey+Icon

It does buff a lot of frenzy/black fame and giant dad pyromancies and the rancors.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Shard+of+Alexander

To buff 15% Bloodboon Ritual

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Dragoncrest+Shield+Talisman

To always have 45% phsycal damage negation

And

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Erdtree%27s+Favor

To get a respectable amount of stats and enough equip load to use a mix of medium/ultra heavy armor and still retain light roll.

Both talismans +2 and sometimes i replace shard of Alexandor with the big incantation/sorcery buff s. Also elemental resistance ones if needed.

Never used the spear talisman for anything.

You mostly use the skill in this setup though, right? Not much poke?

[Lenox]

Gob lähetti viestin:

For me its the choice between the Spear Talisman and the Rotten Winged Sword Insignia.

The latter seems better when you are using a quick weapon that does lots of hits very quickly and so you can reach the needed number for the buff.

The Spear Talisman is a more reliable damage buff for a slower poke weapon. If you do land a hit as a counterattack then you can get a meaty damage boost that looks like blood loss just proced.

Ah, nice. Good stuff. Haven't used the Rotten Winged Sword Insignia much.

[Toad]

Weapon skills like Giant Hunt, Piercing Fang etc can be pretty devestating with the Spear Talisman since the percentage increase is being applied to an already high damage amount and the hyperarmour can help you trade blows.

[Narm]

Lenox lähetti viestin:

Interesting. Makes sense. I don't use spears much and kinda been wondering this since Dark Souls 1. From what I've tested in both games, spears do less damage than other weapons without the talisman. So I was never sure if it was worth it to even bother without the talisman equipped. But I also haven't tried strong variants like Vyke's War Spear or dual-spears.

I'm pretty sure there's something like a normal +15% damage increase (probably wrong about the number, somebody correct me) for landing a thrust attack against an enemy during their own attack animation. The talisman adds like another 30% on top. So their damage is a little lackluster normally, but you're getting like 45% extra damage if you take advantage of this. That makes spears generally pretty good. But then consider effect on something like a pure strength build with powerstanced lances and royal knight's resolve. Or just one lance with the two-handing str and poise damage bonuses. Absolutely disgusting damage numbers.

They're even better in pvp because they're extremely easy to rollcatch with (due to long reach and how quick their R1s are), and they basically all have a long distance sprint poke to prevent people from getting any space. The lance also has a sideswipe that can rollcatch people trying to roll past you. There's basically no escape once they're on top of you.

That talisman is a large part of the reason the PvP meta is mostly poking now. Regular and heavy thrusting swords and spears of all sizes. Oh, also shield pokers can take advantage of this as well.

But for PVE, and even dueling, just use what's fun to play with. I feel like the spear movesets are kind of bland so I don't use them for anything other than having an actual fight against a meta poker.

And as far as Vyke's goes, that's considered strong in PVP mostly because of the madness buildup during i-frames and just buffing flame damage and chipping people to death with the L2 ground flames. On top of the counter poke damage bonus.

Thanks for reading my essay on poking.

[Fineous🔥]

Lenox lähetti viestin:

𝕱𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖔𝖚𝖘 lähetti viestin:

Nah specially if you use Mogh trident i use


https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Godfrey+Icon

It does buff a lot of frenzy/black fame and giant dad pyromancies and the rancors.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Shard+of+Alexander

To buff 15% Bloodboon Ritual

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Dragoncrest+Shield+Talisman

To always have 45% phsycal damage negation

And

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Erdtree%27s+Favor

To get a respectable amount of stats and enough equip load to use a mix of medium/ultra heavy armor and still retain light roll.

Both talismans +2 and sometimes i replace shard of Alexandor with the big incantation/sorcery buff s. Also elemental resistance ones if needed.

Never used the spear talisman for anything.

You mostly use the skill in this setup though, right? Not much poke?

Not really , just normal attacks to kill small monsters or some cheap incantation. But yeah i tend to gather as much monsters i can and blew them away with giantsflame take thee or melt with Bloodboon ritual.

[Lenox]

𝕱𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖔𝖚𝖘 lähetti viestin:

Lenox lähetti viestin:

You mostly use the skill in this setup though, right? Not much poke?

Not really, just normal attacks to kill small monsters or some cheap incantation. But yeah i tend to gather as much monsters i can and blew them away with giantsflame take thee or melt with Bloodboon ritual.

Lol nice. AoE melting sounds fun.

[Lenox]

Narm lähetti viestin:

But for PVE, and even dueling, just use what's fun to play with. I feel like the spear movesets are kind of bland so I don't use them for anything other than having an actual fight against a meta poker.

All the stuff you mentioned makes sense. But this is why I haven't used spears much, since I mostly PvE.

[Narm]

Lenox lähetti viestin:

Narm lähetti viestin:

But for PVE, and even dueling, just use what's fun to play with. I feel like the spear movesets are kind of bland so I don't use them for anything other than having an actual fight against a meta poker.

All the stuff you mentioned makes sense. But this is why I haven't used spears much, since I mostly PvE.

I do actually enjoy regular thrusting swords, and oddly enough, powerstanced short spears for PVE. I like the shortspear R2 and moveset. Honorable mention for spinning weapon on a pike.

[Lenox]

Narm lähetti viestin:

Lenox lähetti viestin:

All the stuff you mentioned makes sense. But this is why I haven't used spears much, since I mostly PvE.

I do actually enjoy regular thrusting swords, and oddly enough, powerstanced short spears for PVE. I like the shortspear R2 and moveset. Honorable mention for spinning weapon on a pike.

Same, actually. I haven't messed with the higher stat requirement ones, but the regular rapier was one of my main weapons for a while.

[River]

I use the Spear and Dagger talisman on my Bloody Helice build. I do both PvE, Co-Op, and pvP with said build.

While the Spear Talisman isn't really necessary as the Bloody Helice does great damage by itself, I still like using it to maximize my damage output. a 15% damage increase when counterattacking is always worth it. Especially on that weapon, given that most of the damage I do comes from counter attacks.

At the end of the day, it's your call. You'll do fine without it, but if you're like me, you'll find it hard to pass up due to the increase in damage, especially in PvP.

[Lenox]

River lähetti viestin:

I use the Spear and Dagger talisman on my Bloody Helice build. I do both PvE, Co-Op, and pvP with said build.

While the Spear Talisman isn't really necessary as the Bloody Helice does great damage by itself, I still like using it to maximize my damage output. a 15% damage increase when counterattacking is always worth it. Especially on that weapon, given that most of the damage I do comes from counter attacks.

At the end of the day, it's your call. You'll do fine without it, but if you're like me, you'll find it hard to pass up due to the increase in damage, especially in PvP.

Interesting. What I'm getting from the responses in this thread is that ya'll don't always pair thrusting weapons with the Spear Talisman and that it's OK to forego it. More of a nice-to-have and not a requirement.