Halberds have lost their place; Fromsoftware, please re-balance them

[CazadorDeLobo]

I've played around with each weapon class a bit now, against small to massive enemies - these weapons are slightly too weak in every category. The jumping attacks should be swapped in terms of R1/R2, the slam being R2 instead of the sweep and dealing appropriate damage to boot.

The thrusting attack(running R1) deals too little poise damage and actual damage, while also being too quick to use. This should cost a lot of stamina and be worth using over jump attack or Ash spam. The normal R1 string is slow and doesn't hit nearly wide or far enough to justify it, treating the weapon like a long and overweight stick rather than a class of bladed multi-use weapons.

Also going to point out nationalistic bias in the way the Cross-Naginata - technically a polearm, only kind of a spear, as represented in-game - gets special attention, but the other dozen or so do not.

Opinions welcome

Gatekeeping is not

[Fineous🔥]

Автор сообщения: BigCheese

Автор сообщения: An Irate Walrus

How on earth did I bail? What alternative reality are you living in?

You immediately bailed on this forum's discussions and started arguing about a Call of Duty thread lol. That point stands as well which is why it struck such a nerve. Just try to be better I guess both in that regard and here on this forum. I know you'll do this all day, but I'm done with you for now so keep the hot air in the bag.

Right....you and the OT (not a typo!) share something. He is extra "happy" while posting in the forums, just like you i guess.

And guess what? you ate a bait from the same guy TWICE......I dont care what hour you have in your country, go and sleep a bit if you dont mind.
This is a totally on-topic advice so you can wake up fresh next morning and eat a golden halberd with cheese.

[NeonAtari]

average halberd enjoyer

[ɸ It That Dwells ɸ]

As someone who favors halberds very highly, I'm just glad they've evolved from DS1's moveset. What an atrocious time that was.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Автор сообщения: ɸ It That Excesses ɸ

As someone who favors halberds very highly, I'm just glad they've evolved from DS1's moveset. What an atrocious time that was.

To be fair to the halberd there, it had the whiff mechanic. While it sucks when you miss, it was balanced to be the same damage as the Claymore(either the Garg, Scythe, or regular Halberd) while following up slightly faster and at longer range if you connect. A real hidden gem of a weapon that I've seen do amazing things - but is so inaccessible with its basic moveset.

[HixBozo]

From my experience I can say that halberd early game can take you long way in Limgrave.

This weapon you have to do + 3 and then dumb for better ones.

It is good weapon but later (like Liurnia) need switch to better options.

It is very viable in Limgrave if not top weapon. It looses its appeal later on against more fundamental weapons and their weapon ashes.

[ɸ It That Dwells ɸ]

Автор сообщения: CazadorDeLobo

Автор сообщения: ɸ It That Excesses ɸ

As someone who favors halberds very highly, I'm just glad they've evolved from DS1's moveset. What an atrocious time that was.

To be fair to the halberd there, it had the whiff mechanic. While it sucks when you miss, it was balanced to be the same damage as the Claymore(either the Garg, Scythe, or regular Halberd) while following up slightly faster and at longer range if you connect. A real hidden gem of a weapon that I've seen do amazing things - but is so inaccessible with its basic moveset.

That was essentially my only problem with it: the moveset. Wasn't very satisfying to use. Even the Titanite Catchpole with its unique heavy attack felt very limited.

DS2 is where I learned to love the halberd. Much more varied moveset, and rewarding your proper spacing with the damage zones between the blade and the hilt was quite satisfying, imo. Maybe this mechanic was present in DS1 too, I don't remember, but I noticed in DS2.

ER I also enjoy the movesets quite a lot, specifically Golden Halberd. I can't speak too much on critique of it though. Just that the recovery is slow on many attacks, which has resulted in deaths on more than one occasion.

[Lu2]

it can act as spear , it can act as axe . doesnt weight too much , reach is good , good for shield counter build . funny but ok dual stance .

[HixBozo]

Pig Studio fromsoft

Halberd is good for reach poke attack. Range, comfortable.

But gets outclassed very early.

Quality weapon however bad design

[CazadorDeLobo]

Автор сообщения: ɸ It That Excesses ɸ

ER I also enjoy the movesets quite a lot, specifically Golden Halberd. I can't speak too much on critique of it though. Just that the recovery is slow on many attacks, which has resulted in deaths on more than one occasion.

Yeah I also enjoy it. I'm just being fair to the arsenal of weapons available to the player. The R2s are just "hit me" moves, for instance. That's not really viable balancing anymore. It was in DS1 as we got around to pointing out. Wish it was just slightly different in nitpicky ways.

Kinda like how I feel about curved swords nowadays.

[ɸ It That Dwells ɸ]

Автор сообщения: CazadorDeLobo

Автор сообщения: ɸ It That Excesses ɸ

ER I also enjoy the movesets quite a lot, specifically Golden Halberd. I can't speak too much on critique of it though. Just that the recovery is slow on many attacks, which has resulted in deaths on more than one occasion.

Yeah I also enjoy it. I'm just being fair to the arsenal of weapons available to the player. The R2s are just "hit me" moves, for instance. That's not really viable balancing anymore. It was in DS1 as we got around to pointing out. Wish it was just slightly different in nitpicky ways.

Kinda like how I feel about curved swords nowadays.

It would be nice.
Perhaps in a coming balance patch. Colossal weapons have been given a lot of attention. Can't see why they wouldn't touch halberds with how moderately slow they are.

I haven't tried curved swords yet, though that's on my list in coming runs.

[Lu2]

Автор сообщения: ɸ It That Excesses ɸ

Автор сообщения: CazadorDeLobo

Yeah I also enjoy it. I'm just being fair to the arsenal of weapons available to the player. The R2s are just "hit me" moves, for instance. That's not really viable balancing anymore. It was in DS1 as we got around to pointing out. Wish it was just slightly different in nitpicky ways.

Kinda like how I feel about curved swords nowadays.

It would be nice.
Perhaps in a coming balance patch. Colossal weapons have been given a lot of attention. Can't see why they wouldn't touch halberds with how moderately slow they are.

I haven't tried curved swords yet, though that's on my list in coming runs.

dual stance curved swords are great for dps,bleed,frost or whatever . jump atack is super fast and does multiple hits only downside is low reach and no stancebreaks on bosses mostly

[ɸ It That Dwells ɸ]

Автор сообщения: Lu2

Автор сообщения: ɸ It That Excesses ɸ

It would be nice.
Perhaps in a coming balance patch. Colossal weapons have been given a lot of attention. Can't see why they wouldn't touch halberds with how moderately slow they are.

I haven't tried curved swords yet, though that's on my list in coming runs.

dual stance curved swords are great for dps,bleed,frost or whatever . jump atack is super fast and does multiple hits only downside is low reach and no stancebreaks on bosses mostly

Thanks for the insight.
Lack of stancebreak I'd say is fine. Just allows me better opportunity to "git guud" as plainly as possible, which is my preferred approach. Does give me curiosities as to what AoW I might consider.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Автор сообщения: Lu2

Автор сообщения: ɸ It That Excesses ɸ

It would be nice.
Perhaps in a coming balance patch. Colossal weapons have been given a lot of attention. Can't see why they wouldn't touch halberds with how moderately slow they are.

I haven't tried curved swords yet, though that's on my list in coming runs.

dual stance curved swords are great for dps,bleed,frost or whatever . jump atack is super fast and does multiple hits only downside is low reach and no stancebreaks on bosses mostly

Yes imo they are quite better than their attempts in previous games to do curved swords. Even DS2, I have to say, has trash curved swords(mostly; some godlike). Warped Sword predictability and excessive phantom range aside, I believe curved swords can't stand on their own, with say, a shield, or in a spellsword build.

It's a bit too... small. The one and two handed attacks, I mean. They look like somebody holding in a doodoo and using that tension to empower this goofy wrist-snapping swing in the R2. What's going on, Fromsoftware? How about some advancing and retreating slashes?

There's a lack of critical multiplier component, I believe originally conceived to give identity to different weapon classes - namely, to make rapiers stand out. Wow are rapiers tiny in this game. These smaller weapons are relegated to either being a status weapon or a DPS weapon as you described, completely stale between each weapon in those classes as a result.

Spinning Slash is trash and doesn't deserve to be on anything. It's not a real move. That gets you murdered in any real life combat or bloodsport. Come on - throw quickstep on there, double-slash maybe. However effective Spinning Slash might be to anyone else - it's not your first choice. Paired with useless R2s since the weapon excels at multiple strikes, it makes you wonder what could be put on those buttons instead of things you'll never want to use.

Moreover, the spins are purely aesthetic. There is rarely a backwards-swinging component and if there is on any of the moves in this game, it is basically dead-angling, or incidental contact. What this comes down to is me nitpicking the fact that animations have simply been recycled and not reconsidered, yet somehow many desirable animations are missing.

[bigbiggaboo]

The running attack seems fine to me. It can take advantage of enemies reduced thrusting attack resistance during attack animations and can do some very good damage. The standard attacks are on the slow side but I feel the length makes up for it, plus they do have a sweeping attack or 2.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Автор сообщения: bigbiggaboo

The running attack seems fine to me. It can take advantage of enemies reduced thrusting attack resistance during attack animations and can do some very good damage. The standard attacks are on the slow side but I feel the length makes up for it, plus they do have a sweeping attack or 2.

That about summarizes how I'd like to feel about it. However, everything feels adjusted in this direction a bit too far, causing imo too sluggish feeling on these moves. I've handled similar weaponry myself; you can very easily chain effective swings together from all sorts of angles, however, the chosen angles and speed of these attacks does not match what the weapon can actually do.

For instance, that running thrust should be the R2 - huge weight behind that spear tip would devastate anything it hits - and the running R1 should be a big spin. If you're sprinting in you might as well go ham, and that's when you'd most want an attack to connect. You've just risked it bigtime, so why not an attack which only this weapon can effectively perform(apparently)?

I've played a mod for DS3 which did this, and actually implemented the DS2 running halberd R1 into DS3. It felt amazing to use without that busted feeling. As is, the base halberd moveset in this game just lacks in all department - all attacks it uses are either on weird buttons/commands, or are somehow underwhelming, damage aside. Just my opinion here, as I agree with what you say as well. I want it to be better without it out-DPSing the things it shouldn't.