y do ppl think summoning makes it a unfair fight?

[OldeTimey]

any fight I win is a fair fight in my eyes.

[hbyw618]

Escrito originalmente por Frost:

Do whatever you want. if you are having fun and you are fine using summons to achieve your goals, more power to you.

Some people just like to handle things alone, their own way, because that’s more fun for them. Fights are more personal and immersive for me so that’s why I dont use them, plus bosses becomes erratic as hell, and I often gets clipped when they flail their massive hit boxes around, which leads to needless frustration that can be avoided by just not using summons.

A little bit like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EbiNlTcz8Y

[--T-a-u-r-u-s--]

I rather summon player give them some extra runs or you have fun fight or terrible depends on players or connection

[Witch ~]

Because they got nothing better going in their life than gloating about being good at a children videogame

[Tao314zdin]

1) Fair/unfair are not subjective terms, so how you feel is irrelevant.

2) The concept of fair requires involvement of at least 2 participants, so what are you even talking about? Fair between you and whom?

[Sonnenbank]

Escrito originalmente por vamirez:

Btw I'm pretty sure I did the "entirety" of Malenia, considering I needed a whole evening and 40+ tries to beat her. With all the tools I could muster.

As someone who has beaten her with mage , mage + tiche , and many many other builds of nearly every variation including just a simple GS with unoptimized build solo
I respectfully doubt that
but you can test this easily for yourself.
Malenia is straight forward and once you have truly learned the fight you will beat her with almost anything 1st try and its almost impossible to die

Load a savegame respec to strength+vigor, equip a single Greatsword or Halberd and go for it.

I am sure you will notice that with Mage + Summon you didnt truly lern her.
I am also sure you wont test yourself
its okay
but it at the same time would be eye opening.

I think in whole of DS1 , DS3 and Elden Ring i have never not 1st tried any boss using npc (DS1 or DS3) or a spirit ash (elden ring). Ofc i didnt try all bosses in game with spirit summons
First try means i had no idea about the boss and still won.

The difference between using spirit ash and not using spirit ash is big
very very big.

Ofc it is okay to use them.
as i said.
your money , your game , your fun.

but it is just lying to yourself to say they dont make that much of a difference


Now after nearly 250h in this game i think some of the bosses spirit summons were kinda in mind of the devs.

Renalla would be an example.
without spirit summons she is just 100% RNG
she either freaks out godmode and constantly re-summons while throwing spells so that you have zero downtime or she does some relaxed half motivated spells with very little summoning.

I think using any summon for distraction is a better option than to go 5-6 times and hope to catch lucky RNG..... or overlevel your weaon to +9 and kill her in 2 hits.
I think using a summon there is better and more fun than the 2 other options

[hbyw618]

Escrito originalmente por Sonnenbank:

your money , your game , your fun.

but it is just lying to yourself to say they dont make that much of a difference

If wisdom works, it works.
If traps works, it works.
Even if bugs works, it works.

You mean if we feel fun we lying ourselves? I dunno who's lying. I just trust my body and my feeling and I will always be honest to them and only to them both.

not everyone likes gymnastics.

I mean if I work hard like some , I can be the champion of gymnastics, who knows? But I dont have that time, I just want fun, that's why I bought games.

[vamirez]

Escrito originalmente por Sonnenbank:

Escrito originalmente por vamirez:

Btw I'm pretty sure I did the "entirety" of Malenia, considering I needed a whole evening and 40+ tries to beat her. With all the tools I could muster.

As someone who has beaten her with mage , mage + tiche , and many many other builds of nearly every variation including just a simple GS with unoptimized build solo
I respectfully doubt that

Friend, this was about the thought of basically "skipping" bosses by using specific tools, such as summons. A boss you fight for several hours is not in any way skipped, and they have plenty time to show their moves. So for me that is indeed the "entirety" of the fight.

Ofc I didn't study Malenia for weeks to get a master's degree ;) Which seems to be the "entirety" of the fight for you. Which is fine, but there seems to be a different association of the term "entirety" :)

[Sonnenbank]

Escrito originalmente por hbyw618:

Escrito originalmente por Sonnenbank:

your money , your game , your fun.

but it is just lying to yourself to say they dont make that much of a difference

If wisdom works, it works.
If traps works, it works.
Even if bugs works, it works.

You mean if we feel fun we lying ourselves? I dunno who's lying. I just trust my body and my feeling and I will always be honest to them and only to them both.

not everyone likes gymnastics.

I mean if I work hard like some , I can be the champion of gymnastics, who knows? But I dont have that time, I just want fun, that's why I bought games.

you are completely missing the point.
I never said you lie to yourself when you say you have fun with spirit ashes ?
i never said that. You are making this up in your head...

I said claiming that spirit ashes dont make the game soooo much easier that it is almost a different game is lying to yourself. Because that is what they do.

Its kinda like the people using an e-bike that are saying it doesnt make that much of a difference compared to a normal bike since you still have to pedal yourself.....
yay lol its just that you get the power of a decent amateur cyclist racer assisting you at all times.... not that much of a difference >-<



@vamirez
Fair enough.
You feel like you have seen enough of the boss mechanics even with spirit ashes to have an experience you would view as complete.
i can understand that.

i dunno maybe you should still try how much you have learned from that 40+ fights with spirit ashes assisting and fight her with a simple sword or halberd and see how it goes.
maybe it will go better than i expect ;)

but maybe after some attempts you will see that its a completely different horse to do it without summons