Still don't understand how death works.

[Kain]

When Marika removed the rune of death she basically removed the concept of Death from the world. But what happens when you die? It says you return to the Erdtree, but what does it mean? Your souls is purified and then you reincarnate? Do you reincarnate in the same body and it's just heals up, get up and start moving again? There are many mentions of tarnished who died, Millicent, seems to have died.

I'm really not sure, does it mean you merely do not age? Vaati mentions briefly death in one of his first videos on ER lore, but his explanations seems a bit lacking too, like even he doesn't know what the ♥♥♥♥ is going on.

[Kain]

I just think it's such a major thing, it's basically what the whole story revolves around in a way and what makes the Golden Order and it's really vague. Even Vaati I wish he hadn't just glossed over it, saying 'ohhh that turtle will just stand up again after while', I mean really, how does it make sense lorewise?

There is indications that, people who are buried eventually work to become an erdtree, like you see that when you die you leave a small sapling, that there are jars with countless bodies near trees and in tombs bodies are merging together creating a tree or feeding the roots of the big erdtree.

I know the game is around making up your own head cannon, but, I don't know, I just wish it made more sense like in the other Dark Souls, even Sekiro has a very well explained reason on to why you're immortal.

[Xengre]

Messaggio originale di QuentinTeo:

Messaggio originale di Xengre:

I don't think there is a story reason. I think it is just a game mechanic unlike Sekiro. I think Dark Souls had the same issue without supporting lore.

Dark souls had supporting lore, what are you saying? Every person in the DS saga is unable to properly die because of the First Flame that is going to die. Every time someone dies loses his humanity, becoming hollow. That's why the NPCs become hollow... Or basically all the humanoids NPCs are already hollow

I don't believe they actually did. I could be wrong but from what I understand...

Hollow is a combination of a state of mind into mostly madness (but not always total) and physical decay. Unfortunately, being hollowed is actually quite inconsistent in the Souls franchise and even in DS3 with the Dark Sigil is quite different. Further, there are characters who do permanently die and I've seen none referenced as having died and then revived as "hollowed". Only those fell into a state of hollow due to losing themselves. In contrast, there are definitely NPCs and lore characters, as well as bosses, who have die permanently and do not hollow. Also, your character has hollow states and unhollowed which further disrupts from this as you revive regardless. There is never really a tangible differentiation of alive/dead in hollowing or humanity, just a state of being. This could be just due to the lore being so convoluted even the developers aren't sure, such as some of the questionable nature of Age of Dark or it could be them trying to be intentionally mysterious and loose with lore design.

However, in the end all the humans we were seeing hollowed were due to going mad or a loss of something (loved one, goal, etc.) and while those who had a powerful goal like the blacksmith and MC remained steadfast despite hollowfication. The sigil is the only instance I know of death being involved with hollowing and I suspect it is just from a mechanical point and is never explicitly implicate din the lore (it is unclear if it means death of your humanity or practical death, but it is likely your humanity considering the effects and description despite the mechanic).

Even the implications of First Flame and Dark age and perpetual alteration is very limited in info and has a lot of interpretations, some of which are suggested to be falsely spread in their world (like the big bang > big crunch end of world then big bang again or the possibly false age of dark claim for humanity which is believed to be dubious, or questions of entities on a higher plane such as the dragons and possibly other unknown entities).

Maybe I'm missing something since I'm not deep into the lore and enjoy it loosely but it doesn't seem to have any lore supporting reasons in Souls games.

Messaggio originale di aideorat:

Dark Souls' death mechanic is explained by the Curse of Undeath, every undead is resurrected after a little while.

We actually never see this happen to anyone, not even those hollowed, other than our own character but the world resets state as if it never occurred. This is unlikely accurate and probably just a screw up by FROM when handling the convoluted lore. In fact, contrary, hollow has only been seen to occur to the living.

Further, hollows are not a state of being "undead" as in true death but a state of mind/body and may have been a natural state of order bouncing between humanity and hollowed which is very different from death or reincarnation.

I admit I could be wrong but I've seen nothing to support the rebirth mechanic or some of these believed theories and I can't even find a real online statement of others with the same thoughts about Curse of Undeath relating to actual death and bonfires. Curse of Undeath is a spread disease on the living and causes hollowing.

[the Witch-King of Angmar]

People die when they are killed.

[Einstine]

Messaggio originale di the Witch-King of Angmar:

People die when they are killed.

Whoa, whoa slowdown there Flash. Eli-5 it for me...

[Ulmace]

Messaggio originale di Sgt. Thundercok:

Messaggio originale di the Witch-King of Angmar:

People die when they are killed.

Whoa, whoa slowdown there Flash. Eli-5 it for me...

you die if your health reaches zero

[the Witch-King of Angmar]

Messaggio originale di Sgt. Thundercok:

Messaggio originale di the Witch-King of Angmar:

People die when they are killed.

Whoa, whoa slowdown there Flash. Eli-5 it for me...

When you stop being alive you are dead.

[Ulmace]

Messaggio originale di the Witch-King of Angmar:

Messaggio originale di Sgt. Thundercok:

Whoa, whoa slowdown there Flash. Eli-5 it for me...

When you stop being alive you are dead.

so then how does it work if you are undead?

[the Witch-King of Angmar]

Messaggio originale di Ulmace:

Messaggio originale di the Witch-King of Angmar:

When you stop being alive you are dead.

so then how does it work if you are undead?

Well when you are undead, you are no longer dead, but you're still not alive.

[Ulmace]

Messaggio originale di the Witch-King of Angmar:

Messaggio originale di Ulmace:

so then how does it work if you are undead?

Well when you are undead, you are no longer dead, but you're still not alive.

exactly, then how do you die?

[the Witch-King of Angmar]

Messaggio originale di Ulmace:

Messaggio originale di the Witch-King of Angmar:

Well when you are undead, you are no longer dead, but you're still not alive.

exactly, then how do you die?

Your status of "un"dead is revoked, leaving you only with death. You're thus no longer part of the undead, merely the dead.

[Einstine]

Thanks guys, you really helped me figure this death thing out to the point where I think I might be almost invinc.......... <enters game: dies>

[Ulmace]

Messaggio originale di Sgt. Thundercok:

Thanks guys, you really helped me figure this death thing out to the point where I think I might me almost invinc.......... <enters game: dies>

u need more vigor

[the Witch-King of Angmar]

yup never skip the vigor check

[Kain]

Messaggio originale di Xengre:

Messaggio originale di QuentinTeo:

Dark souls had supporting lore, what are you saying? Every person in the DS saga is unable to properly die because of the First Flame that is going to die. Every time someone dies loses his humanity, becoming hollow. That's why the NPCs become hollow... Or basically all the humanoids NPCs are already hollow

I don't believe they actually did. I could be wrong but from what I understand...

Hollow is a combination of a state of mind into mostly madness (but not always total) and physical decay. Unfortunately, being hollowed is actually quite inconsistent in the Souls franchise and even in DS3 with the Dark Sigil is quite different. Further, there are characters who do permanently die and I've seen none referenced as having died and then revived as "hollowed". Only those fell into a state of hollow due to losing themselves. In contrast, there are definitely NPCs and lore characters, as well as bosses, who have die permanently and do not hollow. Also, your character has hollow states and unhollowed which further disrupts from this as you revive regardless. There is never really a tangible differentiation of alive/dead in hollowing or humanity, just a state of being. This could be just due to the lore being so convoluted even the developers aren't sure, such as some of the questionable nature of Age of Dark or it could be them trying to be intentionally mysterious and loose with lore design.

However, in the end all the humans we were seeing hollowed were due to going mad or a loss of something (loved one, goal, etc.) and while those who had a powerful goal like the blacksmith and MC remained steadfast despite hollowfication. The sigil is the only instance I know of death being involved with hollowing and I suspect it is just from a mechanical point and is never explicitly implicate din the lore (it is unclear if it means death of your humanity or practical death, but it is likely your humanity considering the effects and description despite the mechanic).

Even the implications of First Flame and Dark age and perpetual alteration is very limited in info and has a lot of interpretations, some of which are suggested to be falsely spread in their world (like the big bang > big crunch end of world then big bang again or the possibly false age of dark claim for humanity which is believed to be dubious, or questions of entities on a higher plane such as the dragons and possibly other unknown entities).

Maybe I'm missing something since I'm not deep into the lore and enjoy it loosely but it doesn't seem to have any lore supporting reasons in Souls games.

Messaggio originale di aideorat:

Dark Souls' death mechanic is explained by the Curse of Undeath, every undead is resurrected after a little while.

We actually never see this happen to anyone, not even those hollowed, other than our own character but the world resets state as if it never occurred. This is unlikely accurate and probably just a screw up by FROM when handling the convoluted lore. In fact, contrary, hollow has only been seen to occur to the living.

Further, hollows are not a state of being "undead" as in true death but a state of mind/body and may have been a natural state of order bouncing between humanity and hollowed which is very different from death or reincarnation.

I admit I could be wrong but I've seen nothing to support the rebirth mechanic or some of these believed theories and I can't even find a real online statement of others with the same thoughts about Curse of Undeath relating to actual death and bonfires. Curse of Undeath is a spread disease on the living and causes hollowing.

I think it's not merely a state of mind a physical problem, I think they do expedite the curse or helps to keep at bay depending on your mental state though but it goes beyond that, it is similar to Alzheimer's in a way but, that lost of self seems to be linked to the soul , the cursed sign is pretty a hole in your body that seeps out your your souls and with it your sense of self and that's why you must feast on other souls to keep yourself going.

Dark Souls 2 is the game that explores that much more than the previous games highlighting through it's characters how they are affected by it and the whole point of the whole game with it's dlcs is to find a sort of bandaid for it, through the crown that stops you from going hollow ,even though you are still cursed, if it stops the hollowing then insanity itself is not what defines being hollow because I don't think the crown stops insanity in itself.

On the other hand the curse seems to in a sense 'trap' your humanity letting it fester on the inside where once in a way it was meant to run freely.

[Pyro Penguin]

When Marika first started plotting against the Greater Will, she took the guidance of grace from the tarnished and banished them from the lands between, sending them out to wage wars in other lands and die in her name. Then after Marika was imprisoned in the Erdtree by the Greater Will, she restored the guidance of grace to the tarnished so their souls could return to the Erdtree for resurrection, and then they could retrieve the great runes for Marika.

edit: so this would imply that all of the tarnished that claim they lost the guidance of grace can not resurrect anymore