Seamless COOP mod has ruined Eldin ring multiplayer

[RobbySkaz]

Started a new character to do another run of the game after not playing it ever since the dark souls 3 servers came back on, and I’m shocked at how empty and dead this game seems now (even with healthy steam player numbers)

No summon signs practically anywhere, I may have seen 4 total signs available in 4 ish hours of play, not to mention the 3-5 minute matching times for a single invasion.

I totally understand the appeal of the coop mod as it eliminates the summon system alot of players find annoying but the trade off being basically no player activity in the vanilla game seems terrible.

I was expecting to come back to Eldin ring and see double or even triple the amount of summon signs as dark souls 3 with being such an old game but it’s literally the total opposite.

I believe this all stems from the decision of making invasions only target 2+ players (old news) and the lower cap on how many phantoms can be in one world at once, also the lack of covanents to add rewards to PVP for players. The New Seamless Coop mod is just the final nail in the coffin it seems.

Maybe I am the outlier in thinking this is going to be a negative to the overall game, if so I’m curious to hear your take on it.

To any players who are just totally put off by the PVP aspect I highly recommend you Give it a try, the invasion system that the souls games (and ER) has is one of a kind.

(PS if you are one of the ppl who invades into level 15 player worlds with twink’d out high level gear and armor just to stomp new players YOU are a major part of the problem pushing players away from this side of the game)



Edit - Even looking at the major Eldin Ring discords or LFG groups will reinforce this, i"d say 50% at least of the players active in the LFG discord channels are all using the Mod.

[vaanomega]

Him の投稿を引用：

Ok one last time, beceause you are funny Zero.

You have the player base , lets say 10 people.

The game came out ,

9 plays online, available to invade and co-op

1 play offline solo , he will never play coop or pvp. Never

Now the mode comes out ,
4 players install the mod.

They are now two group that plays the game online ,
5 using vanilla (V)
4 using the mod  (M)

Now that 4 player have the mod, they dont interract with the other 5 anymore.

What was one group is now two. Wich is what we mean by splitting the player base.

Unless you pretending these 4 players NEVER played the vanilla ( wich would be false) then player base did got split.

I never said "invasion pool" because invaders dont just invade , they co-op sometimes too. The mod affect both the co-op and invasion pool.
‐-----------

As for who started it , one last time the only "proof" you provided ,

1. Was link to a dude who alt-f4 to cheat his way out of invasion of course people are not going to be happy with him.

2. Dont take into account other forum , or the fact that it could have started as a private message.

Is it a bit more clear now? Because I dont think I can simplify more.

It's good to know how to calculate but.... i mean... those number are just numbers that you "pulled out of your ass"

And your own "data" is biased since you think that all player using the online are aviable to invade, you can play solo and online and you not be "invadeable" since solo invasions are not a thing anymore

So... there is no fact here... just a biased opinion... as much as PvEr's opinions

[Paradox]

Him の投稿を引用：

Ok one last time, beceause you are funny Zero.

You have the player base , lets say 10 people.

The game came out ,

9 plays online, available to invade and co-op

1 play offline solo , he will never play coop or pvp. Never

Now the mode comes out ,
4 players install the mod.

They are now two group that plays the game online ,
5 using vanilla (V)
4 using the mod  (M)

Now that 4 player have the mod, they dont interract with the other 5 anymore.

What was one group is now two. Wich is what we mean by splitting the player base.

Unless you pretending these 4 players NEVER played the vanilla ( wich would be false) then player base did got split.

I never said "invasion pool" because invaders dont just invade , they co-op sometimes too. The mod affect both the co-op and invasion pool.
‐-----------

As for who started it , one last time the only "proof" you provided ,

1. Was link to a dude who alt-f4 to cheat his way out of invasion of course people are not going to be happy with him.

2. Dont take into account other forum , or the fact that it could have started as a private message.

Is it a bit more clear now? Because I dont think I can simplify more.

Most people who use mods, aren't playing online (obviously, because of EAC). With this mod (topic), modders can still play with their friends without "playing online".

So, I think your premise is faulty and it'd be pretty difficult to prove it (by all means, try if you want, but making up numbers and calling it fact, isn't gonna work). Do I think there's some degradation/spit of the actual online playerbase, sure, but that's the case with all the mods, not just this one. There's so many different things that split the playerbase. Hell, EAC itself "split" the playerbase. The invasion system itself "split" the playerbase. Even matchmaking splits it and I'd wager that's the largest split that exists.

[Him]

vaanomega の投稿を引用：

Him の投稿を引用：

Ok one last time, beceause you are funny Zero.

You have the player base , lets say 10 people.

The game came out ,

9 plays online, available to invade and co-op

1 play offline solo , he will never play coop or pvp. Never

Now the mode comes out ,
4 players install the mod.

They are now two group that plays the game online ,
5 using vanilla (V)
4 using the mod  (M)

Now that 4 player have the mod, they dont interract with the other 5 anymore.

What was one group is now two. Wich is what we mean by splitting the player base.

Unless you pretending these 4 players NEVER played the vanilla ( wich would be false) then player base did got split.

I never said "invasion pool" because invaders dont just invade , they co-op sometimes too. The mod affect both the co-op and invasion pool.
‐-----------

As for who started it , one last time the only "proof" you provided ,

1. Was link to a dude who alt-f4 to cheat his way out of invasion of course people are not going to be happy with him.

2. Dont take into account other forum , or the fact that it could have started as a private message.

Is it a bit more clear now? Because I dont think I can simplify more.

It's good to know how to calculate but.... i mean... those number are just numbers that you "pulled out of your ass"

And your own "data" is biased since you think that all player using the online are aviable to invade, you can play solo and online and you not be "invadeable" since solo invasions are not a thing anymore

So... there is no fact here... just a biased opinion... as much as PvEr's opinions

These numbers are just to show that they are split in the player base and are not accurate.

And you missed the last part I think

I never said "invasion pool" because invaders dont just invade , they co-op sometimes too. The mod affect both the co-op and invasion pool.

I know a lot of people are biaised, but if you do provide a good argument I will agree with you.

Its not biaised to say that the mod split the player base, or to say its impossible to prove who started it.

[Him]

Paradox の投稿を引用：

Him の投稿を引用：

Ok one last time, beceause you are funny Zero.

You have the player base , lets say 10 people.

The game came out ,

9 plays online, available to invade and co-op

1 play offline solo , he will never play coop or pvp. Never

Now the mode comes out ,
4 players install the mod.

They are now two group that plays the game online ,
5 using vanilla (V)
4 using the mod  (M)

Now that 4 player have the mod, they dont interract with the other 5 anymore.

What was one group is now two. Wich is what we mean by splitting the player base.

Unless you pretending these 4 players NEVER played the vanilla ( wich would be false) then player base did got split.

I never said "invasion pool" because invaders dont just invade , they co-op sometimes too. The mod affect both the co-op and invasion pool.
‐-----------

As for who started it , one last time the only "proof" you provided ,

1. Was link to a dude who alt-f4 to cheat his way out of invasion of course people are not going to be happy with him.

2. Dont take into account other forum , or the fact that it could have started as a private message.

Is it a bit more clear now? Because I dont think I can simplify more.

Most people who use mods, aren't playing online (obviously, because of EAC). With this mod (topic), modders can still play with their friends without "playing online".

So, I think your premise is faulty and it'd be pretty difficult to prove it (by all means, try if you want, but making up numbers and calling it fact, isn't gonna work). Do I think there's some degradation/spit of the actual online playerbase, sure, but that's the case with all the mods, not just this one. Hell, EAC itself "split" the playerbase. The invasion system itself "split" the playerbase. There's so many different things that split the playerbase (even matchmaking splits it, because they weren't smart enough to figure out how to scale players to hosts, I'd wager this is the largest split that exists among them all).

I never pretended these numbers were accurate and yes other thing split the player base.

The numbers are just there to show the split

My point is that it is dishonest to say it does not split the player base , or to pretend its the invader who "started insulting pver"

[Paradox]

Him の投稿を引用：

Paradox の投稿を引用：

Most people who use mods, aren't playing online (obviously, because of EAC). With this mod (topic), modders can still play with their friends without "playing online".

So, I think your premise is faulty and it'd be pretty difficult to prove it (by all means, try if you want, but making up numbers and calling it fact, isn't gonna work). Do I think there's some degradation/spit of the actual online playerbase, sure, but that's the case with all the mods, not just this one. Hell, EAC itself "split" the playerbase. The invasion system itself "split" the playerbase. There's so many different things that split the playerbase (even matchmaking splits it, because they weren't smart enough to figure out how to scale players to hosts, I'd wager this is the largest split that exists among them all).

I never pretended these numbers were accurate and yes other thing split the player base.

My point is that it is dishonest to say it does not split the player base , or to pretend its the invader who "started insulting pver"

Well, I'm confused. With so many things "splitting the player base" is this one special somehow?

As for the invasion mechanic, they've been ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it over since they created it. And it's practically dead in ER to begin with.

I've always looked at it more akin to DayZ or some other "paranoia" style game. Where players are your enemies and an integral part of the "experience". And that's what they've been slowly killing with each game.

[vaanomega]

Him の投稿を引用：

vaanomega の投稿を引用：

It's good to know how to calculate but.... i mean... those number are just numbers that you "pulled out of your ass"

And your own "data" is biased since you think that all player using the online are aviable to invade, you can play solo and online and you not be "invadeable" since solo invasions are not a thing anymore

So... there is no fact here... just a biased opinion... as much as PvEr's opinions

These numbers are just to show that they are split in the player base and are not accurate.

And you missed the last part I think

I never said "invasion pool" because invaders dont just invade , they co-op sometimes too. The mod affect both the co-op and invasion pool.

I know a lot of people are biaised, but if you do provide a good argument I will agree with you.

Its not biaised to say that the mod split the player base, or to say its impossible to prove who started it.

Him の投稿を引用：

9 plays online, available to invade and co-op

1 play offline solo , he will never play coop or pvp. Never

Invade and co-op
and :
used to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences, that are to be taken jointly.

So... you are saying that 9 are invadeable

[Him]

Paradox の投稿を引用：

Him の投稿を引用：

I never pretended these numbers were accurate and yes other thing split the player base.

My point is that it is dishonest to say it does not split the player base , or to pretend its the invader who "started insulting pver"

Well, I'm confused. With so many things "splitting the player base" is this one special somehow?

As far as I am aware , its the one that affect the most the "co-op" base, because its aimed to be played online , targetting the "online pool".

The other mods were not only usable offline to begin with , so no co-op left for those mods.

But like it was mentioned before , I dont think there is a way to get solid numbers for sure.

All that can be said for sure , and that is the point that zero cant understand, is that it does split the player base.

By how much? I dont know.

[Him]

vaanomega の投稿を引用：

Him の投稿を引用：

These numbers are just to show that they are split in the player base and are not accurate.

And you missed the last part I think

I never said "invasion pool" because invaders dont just invade , they co-op sometimes too. The mod affect both the co-op and invasion pool.

I know a lot of people are biaised, but if you do provide a good argument I will agree with you.

Its not biaised to say that the mod split the player base, or to say its impossible to prove who started it.

Him の投稿を引用：

9 plays online, available to invade and co-op

1 play offline solo , he will never play coop or pvp. Never

Invade and co-op
and :
used to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences, that are to be taken jointly.

So... you are saying that 9 are invadeable

Im saying i can play with these 9 , as invader, co-oper or blue dude.

[Paradox]

Him の投稿を引用：

Paradox の投稿を引用：

Well, I'm confused. With so many things "splitting the player base" is this one special somehow?

As far as I am aware , its the one that affect the most the "co-op" base, because its aimed to be played online , targetting the "online pool".

The other mods were not only usable offline to begin with , so no co-op left for those mods.

But like it was mentioned before , I dont think there is a way to get solid numbers for sure.

All that can be said for sure , and that is the point that zero cant understand, is that it does split the player base.

By how much? I dont know.

Well, I'd agree that it's indisputable that it splits the playerbase. Even if just one person was playing online and then used it that would make it technically true.

I would disagree that it's the "most". Even their matchmaking system, as I mentioned before, is a larger split. Unless they've made changes to it so that all levels can be matched together, without a PW.

[vaanomega]

Him の投稿を引用：

Paradox の投稿を引用：

Well, I'm confused. With so many things "splitting the player base" is this one special somehow?

As far as I am aware , its the one that affect the most the "co-op" base, because its aimed to be played online , targetting the "online pool".

The other mods were not only usable offline to begin with , so no co-op left for those mods.

But like it was mentioned before , I dont think there is a way to get solid numbers for sure.

All that can be said for sure , and that is the point that zero cant understand, is that it does split the player base.

By how much? I dont know.

Maybe some did stop Vanilla Co-op for Randomizers or any other mod... or maybe they are doing Special Modded Coop (like randomizers + seamless coop) who knows

[Paradox]

vaanomega の投稿を引用：

Him の投稿を引用：

As far as I am aware , its the one that affect the most the "co-op" base, because its aimed to be played online , targetting the "online pool".

The other mods were not only usable offline to begin with , so no co-op left for those mods.

But like it was mentioned before , I dont think there is a way to get solid numbers for sure.

All that can be said for sure , and that is the point that zero cant understand, is that it does split the player base.

By how much? I dont know.

Maybe some did stop Vanilla Co-op for Randomizers or any other mod... or maybe they are doing Special Modded Coop (like randomizers + seamless coop) who knows

There's a ton of a things that split the playerbase, many are built into the game, many are not. That's why I don't understand the fuss over this one in particular.

I don't see a whole lot of "Widescreen mod has ruined Eldin ring multiplayer" or "EAC has ruined Eldin ring multiplayer". The latter I would say is probably the 2nd biggest cause outside of just matchmaking in general and players not liking the online aspects to begin with, because it's the reason so many mods split the playerbase.

Or here's another one that's probably pretty big "Lack of covenants has ruined Eldin ring multiplayer"... Though, that's more about multiplayer in general than a split of the playerbase.

[BEEP!]

It's almost like none of this matters the mod is here to stay bit ch all you want your screaming into the void and nothing will change move on.
Just except what it is there's still plenty of invasions going on nobody is to blame except FromSoft for making the system so pointing fingers at co-ops,,modders or invaders means absolutely nothing It's a child's argument that will solve nothing because there's no point to be make because nothing will change.
The only way to get rid of the seamless co-op mod is making the game online at all time and that would upset a whole lot more people than invaders and would shorten the lifespan of the game so just move on there's no argument to win because there's no argument to begin with.

[Him]

Paradox の投稿を引用：

Him の投稿を引用：

As far as I am aware , its the one that affect the most the "co-op" base, because its aimed to be played online , targetting the "online pool".

The other mods were not only usable offline to begin with , so no co-op left for those mods.

But like it was mentioned before , I dont think there is a way to get solid numbers for sure.

All that can be said for sure , and that is the point that zero cant understand, is that it does split the player base.

By how much? I dont know.

Well, I'd agree that it's indisputable that it splits the playerbase. Even if just one person was playing online and then used it that would make it technically true.

I would disagree that it's the "most". Even their matchmaking system, as I mentioned before, is a larger split. Unless they've made changes to it so that all levels can be matched together, without a PW.

Maybe you are right but we just cant tell without the numbers !

[Paradox]

Him の投稿を引用：

Paradox の投稿を引用：

Well, I'd agree that it's indisputable that it splits the playerbase. Even if just one person was playing online and then used it that would make it technically true.

I would disagree that it's the "most". Even their matchmaking system, as I mentioned before, is a larger split. Unless they've made changes to it so that all levels can be matched together, without a PW.

Maybe you are right but we just cant tell without the numbers !

Well, we do know that 100% of all people online are subject to the MM system (when using random coop as opposed to PW). So, it's probably a pretty good bet that it's one of the largest "splits".

[Engineer]

We're locking this thread as it has devolved into non-productive argument. Thanks for your understanding.