Seamless COOP mod has ruined Eldin ring multiplayer

[RobbySkaz]

Started a new character to do another run of the game after not playing it ever since the dark souls 3 servers came back on, and I’m shocked at how empty and dead this game seems now (even with healthy steam player numbers)

No summon signs practically anywhere, I may have seen 4 total signs available in 4 ish hours of play, not to mention the 3-5 minute matching times for a single invasion.

I totally understand the appeal of the coop mod as it eliminates the summon system alot of players find annoying but the trade off being basically no player activity in the vanilla game seems terrible.

I was expecting to come back to Eldin ring and see double or even triple the amount of summon signs as dark souls 3 with being such an old game but it’s literally the total opposite.

I believe this all stems from the decision of making invasions only target 2+ players (old news) and the lower cap on how many phantoms can be in one world at once, also the lack of covanents to add rewards to PVP for players. The New Seamless Coop mod is just the final nail in the coffin it seems.

Maybe I am the outlier in thinking this is going to be a negative to the overall game, if so I’m curious to hear your take on it.

To any players who are just totally put off by the PVP aspect I highly recommend you Give it a try, the invasion system that the souls games (and ER) has is one of a kind.

(PS if you are one of the ppl who invades into level 15 player worlds with twink’d out high level gear and armor just to stomp new players YOU are a major part of the problem pushing players away from this side of the game)



Edit - Even looking at the major Eldin Ring discords or LFG groups will reinforce this, i"d say 50% at least of the players active in the LFG discord channels are all using the Mod.

[Miles (Tails) Prower]

Well, it appears that the discussion turned the same way it was before in any other hot discussion. The both sides stall to resort to the points they are made.

But here's what I thought about this whole seamless co-op thingy - modders did some revealing facts about possibility of a things, that can be done by FromSoftware, they probably went on a path of "If It ain't broken, don't fix it", so they took old base and slapped on ER.

Sure, there is some effect that brings less players, although unclear by how many, but seamless co-op definitely bring some superiour PvE experience, that will be a good incentive to play. I can bet, most of the Seamless Co-op users don't even care about invasions, though I must say that there are fair amount of anti-invaders for play. What would be ideal if seamless co-op can be integrated to the main game, so that invasion system would also work. And because of that, there will be no segregation by the mod and invaders will have more stuff to invade.

But I would blame no side, but FromSoftware, because they are missing opportinity of integrating somewhat superiour design and interconnect with invasion system. My hot take on this blame is that they may have a mistrust right now with modding community, due to this massive problem of RCE and cheaters fight.

[Soth]

RobbySkaz の投稿を引用：

Started a new character to do another run of the game after not playing it ever since the dark souls 3 servers came back on, and I’m shocked at how empty and dead this game seems now (even with healthy steam player numbers)

No summon signs practically anywhere, I may have seen 4 total signs available in 4 ish hours of play, not to mention the 3-5 minute matching times for a single invasion.

I totally understand the appeal of the coop mod as it eliminates the summon system alot of players find annoying but the trade off being basically no player activity in the vanilla game seems terrible.

I was expecting to come back to Eldin ring and see double or even triple the amount of summon signs as dark souls 3 with being such an old game but it’s literally the total opposite.

I believe this all stems from the decision of making invasions only target 2+ players (old news) and the lower cap on how many phantoms can be in one world at once, also the lack of covanents to add rewards to PVP for players. The New Seamless Coop mod is just the final nail in the coffin it seems.

Maybe I am the outlier in thinking this is going to be a negative to the overall game, if so I’m curious to hear your take on it.

To any players who are just totally put off by the PVP aspect I highly recommend you Give it a try, the invasion system that the souls games (and ER) has is one of a kind.

(PS if you are one of the ppl who invades into level 15 player worlds with twink’d out high level gear and armor just to stomp new players YOU are a major part of the problem pushing players away from this side of the game)

:praisesun:

Edit - Even looking at the major Eldin Ring discords or LFG groups will reinforce this, i"d say 50% at least of the players active in the LFG discord channels are all using the Mod.

It's the opposite, people use the mod because they don't want any PvP, or invasions. They just want a pure Co-op experience. It certainly adds a bunch of QoL and desirable features, but unfortunate that involves compromising the original vision of the developers with regards to how invasions worked.

[Arokhantos]

What is ruining it is the lack of ultrawide support forcing players to play offline, players do not want that so they seek alternatives like this, and this is a common trend as its not just ultrawide players, but some players really do not want invasions, and then you can say well then you are a cheater cos you are avoiding invasions but thats the same as saying that playing offline is cheating which is clearly not cheating, you cant force players to play with you by your rules, thats not how to world works.
As for me i play offline only im not a fan of the way online works on seemless coop.

If you want me to play online they have to fix what me and many want.

[Aenarion]

zero の投稿を引用：

Aenarion の投稿を引用：

So your logic is they are playing coop but arent normally part of the invasion pool?

Do you actually read what you type? You call my assumption flawed but yours is just beyond that. I'd love to see how they'd be playing coop offline :)

Back at you You have no way to objectively state they weren't part of the invasion pool to start with.

i mean yes, using the co-op mod means you aren't part of the invasion pool.

but here is the question: how do you know that when they were playing without the mod they were part of the pool to start with?

There's no point in bothering to talk if you're going to ignore everything i say, not reading what im writing and repeat the same thing over and over..... which as far as i can see is all you've done in this thread so far.

You're argument is just as strawman as anyone else's, but atleast other people aren't just being ignorant. If people really wanted to coop, assuming the mod didnt exist then theres a far more higher chance they will do so regardless and just deal with the invasions, as they have done for every game so far. Because there was no other option. Those people would now be removed from the pool creating a negative affect on the online activity.

It's not hard to understand if you can actually look at anyone's points other than your own.

vaanomega の投稿を引用：

In the end, it's only opinion vs opinion, we can't be sure that the mod did affect the online as much as we can't be sure it didn't,
but with the logic about the mod affecting the online community, all mods could had been guilty of that, since a mod could potentially attract people for some new way of playing their game

It's exactly opinion vs opinion, but from what i see lurking the forum it's a large chunk of the PvE side thinking theirs is god's gift to humanity and refuse to actually engage in discussion but would rather troll, be condescending to other points and generally ignoring any valid argument in favour of repeating the same thing again and again as if it makes it true. Zero is a great example of this.

People modding to play a new way were always single player and offline though, the coop mod is not the same, because its actively taking people out that should be in the online coop player pool, so its not comparable.

[Aenarion]

fauxpas の投稿を引用：

Then the solution is to attempt to improve the system so more players are willing to engage with it, but that's not a discussion Invaders are ready to have.

This works both ways you know, its not a discussion PvE players are ready to have either. Demanding everything changes to suit your needs isn't a discussion after all. They have very much proven to be unwilling to engage in anything that doesnt favour them. There can't be any discussion when there's such one-sided attitudes.

Besides, even if they changed their next game to a seamless experience, people will whine and cry and do everything they can to ignore invasions, and thats what i see the majority of complaints are about, as if they are entitled to decide game mechanics. The same old arguments will never disappear anyway.

The crux of the problem is people buy a game and don't want to engage with it the way its intended. So this will be a never ending problem until either they remove online functionality all together, or people learn to engage in invasions and stop treating them like a bully system when its not.

GoreTiger の投稿を引用：

pvp in ER is a sad broken mess so why would anyone want to have it constantly interrupting and being forced to engage in it when you're just looking to enjoy an adventure with your friend?
It's no surprise that the Mod is doing so well, Hopefully the devs take the hint and change the invasion mechanics so people can at least opt out of them in coop.

This person being a great example of what i mean. There's no discussion to be had here, they are hateful and bias and want things changed to only suit them uncaring how it affects everyone else or how the games systems interact with each other and refuse to engage in the game how its intended to be. And that's the sentiment im seeing everywhere on here.

The forum is very much anti-invader and it shows.

[Komarimaru]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but invasions were avoided all the time from demon souls on ps3 to now simply from using a firewall, so only connect to friends.

It's not hateful for them to use a mod, that's a silly statement. They are playing with friends only, doesn't matter to anyone else and since they were I using firewall before anyway, nothing has changed.

[Aenarion]

Komarimaru の投稿を引用：

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but invasions were avoided all the time from demon souls on ps3 to now simply from using a firewall, so only connect to friends.

If you think anymore than a very few were actually bothering to do this i don't know what to tell you..

Komarimaru の投稿を引用：

It's not hateful for them to use a mod, that's a silly statement.

Literally not what im saying... Can people only cherry pick and purposefully misinterpret so they can project their own opinion? Please actually read what people write, but good job ignoring everything i said i guess, this is exactly why no discussion can be had with you, when you conveniently ignore and warp everything to suit your agenda.

Im saying their entitled, selfish and arrogant attitude is bias and hateful towards others just because they cant have their way normally. It's nothing to do with the mod, but the attitudes of the people using them. And that won't change, so the arguing will never end.

[Avlaen]

Blame elden ring for not having a good way to play with friends so it requires a mod to do it.

Oh and not having to play Guess if the invader is cheating mini game, or when i did online before the mod before they fixed it, Are they using the instant death exploit, which about 80% were lol.

Invaders are their own worse enemy when it comes to killing the pvp population, so many will use any cheat or exploit they can.

[Aenarion]

Lady Avlaen の投稿を引用：

Oh and not having to play Guess if the invader is cheating mini game, or when i did online before the mod before they fixed it, Are they using the instant death exploit, which about 80% were lol.

Thats a massive exaggeration. Besides the point of using them so openly and rampantly is to show there is a wide spread problem and to get it fixed urgently. Do you think it would have been patched out as soon if people were being more secretive about its use? Besides anyone could use exploits, not just invaders, you're using a strawman argument here. I found plenty of coop players exploiting the carian glitch for example.

I never once found an invader exploiter, and mostly a certain side of people that abused taunter's tongue to troll invaders by being out of bounds for them.

[MundM]

I don't know why they gave you so many clowns, because it is true.
It was clear from the start, that the mod provides an experience that is so many times better than the vanilla experience, it's unreal! Now there are not many people providing help or just fun random coop in the vanilla experience anymore.

[fauxpas]

Aenarion の投稿を引用：

fauxpas の投稿を引用：

Then the solution is to attempt to improve the system so more players are willing to engage with it, but that's not a discussion Invaders are ready to have.

This works both ways you know, its not a discussion PvE players are ready to have either. Demanding everything changes to suit your needs isn't a discussion after all. They have very much proven to be unwilling to engage in anything that doesnt favour them. There can't be any discussion when there's such one-sided attitudes.

Besides, even if they changed their next game to a seamless experience, people will whine and cry and do everything they can to ignore invasions, and thats what i see the majority of complaints are about, as if they are entitled to decide game mechanics. The same old arguments will never disappear anyway.

The crux of the problem is people buy a game and don't want to engage with it the way its intended. So this will be a never ending problem until either they remove online functionality all together, or people learn to engage in invasions and stop treating them like a bully system when its not.

GoreTiger の投稿を引用：

pvp in ER is a sad broken mess so why would anyone want to have it constantly interrupting and being forced to engage in it when you're just looking to enjoy an adventure with your friend?
It's no surprise that the Mod is doing so well, Hopefully the devs take the hint and change the invasion mechanics so people can at least opt out of them in coop.

This person being a great example of what i mean. There's no discussion to be had here, they are hateful and bias and want things changed to only suit them uncaring how it affects everyone else or how the games systems interact with each other and refuse to engage in the game how its intended to be. And that's the sentiment im seeing everywhere on here.

The forum is very much anti-invader and it shows.

Eh, there may be some truth to that, but the problem is that Invaders need Hosts in order to have fun, Hosts don't need Invaders so like it or not the two groups aren't on equal negotiation footing.


And yet again you try to bring up "play the game as intended" ... which is a pretty low value argument since Invasions are such a tiny (and even without the mod largely avoidable) portion of the game, don't even fit with what Miz claims his vision for them was, and most importantly ignores the primary intent of every game, which is to have fun however you want.

[vaanomega]

Aenarion の投稿を引用：

zero の投稿を引用：

i mean yes, using the co-op mod means you aren't part of the invasion pool.

but here is the question: how do you know that when they were playing without the mod they were part of the pool to start with?

There's no point in bothering to talk if you're going to ignore everything i say, not reading what im writing and repeat the same thing over and over..... which as far as i can see is all you've done in this thread so far.

You're argument is just as strawman as anyone else's, but atleast other people aren't just being ignorant. If people really wanted to coop, assuming the mod didnt exist then theres a far more higher chance they will do so regardless and just deal with the invasions, as they have done for every game so far. Because there was no other option. Those people would now be removed from the pool creating a negative affect on the online activity.

It's not hard to understand if you can actually look at anyone's points other than your own.

vaanomega の投稿を引用：

In the end, it's only opinion vs opinion, we can't be sure that the mod did affect the online as much as we can't be sure it didn't,
but with the logic about the mod affecting the online community, all mods could had been guilty of that, since a mod could potentially attract people for some new way of playing their game

It's exactly opinion vs opinion, but from what i see lurking the forum it's a large chunk of the PvE side thinking theirs is god's gift to humanity and refuse to actually engage in discussion but would rather troll, be condescending to other points and generally ignoring any valid argument in favour of repeating the same thing again and again as if it makes it true. Zero is a great example of this.

People modding to play a new way were always single player and offline though, the coop mod is not the same, because its actively taking people out that should be in the online coop player pool, so its not comparable.

The problem i have with the "it's not comparable", most people that i know are using Randomizers or any mod to modify the experience were either solo player that were doing online activities from time to time, or coop player that finished the game and their buddy stopped playing, we have not enough data to draw conclusions since we only have two Data: the Steam Charts wich is only Peak Player count and not daily users, and the mod's unique download

[Him]

Ok one last time, beceause you are funny Zero.

You have the player base , lets say 10 people.

The game came out ,

9 plays online, available to invade and co-op

1 play offline solo , he will never play coop or pvp. Never

Now the mode comes out ,
4 players install the mod.

They are now two group that plays the game online ,
5 using vanilla (V)
4 using the mod  (M)

Now that 4 player have the mod, they dont interract with the other 5 anymore.

What was one group is now two. Wich is what we mean by splitting the player base.

Unless you pretending these 4 players NEVER played the vanilla ( wich would be false) then player base did got split.

I never said "invasion pool" because invaders dont just invade , they co-op sometimes too. The mod affect both the co-op and invasion pool.
‐-----------

As for who started it , one last time the only "proof" you provided ,

1. Was link to a dude who alt-f4 to cheat his way out of invasion of course people are not going to be happy with him.

2. Dont take into account other forum , or the fact that it could have started as a private message.

Is it a bit more clear now? Because I dont think I can simplify more.

[Him]

vaanomega の投稿を引用：

Aenarion の投稿を引用：

There's no point in bothering to talk if you're going to ignore everything i say, not reading what im writing and repeat the same thing over and over..... which as far as i can see is all you've done in this thread so far.

You're argument is just as strawman as anyone else's, but atleast other people aren't just being ignorant. If people really wanted to coop, assuming the mod didnt exist then theres a far more higher chance they will do so regardless and just deal with the invasions, as they have done for every game so far. Because there was no other option. Those people would now be removed from the pool creating a negative affect on the online activity.

It's not hard to understand if you can actually look at anyone's points other than your own.



It's exactly opinion vs opinion, but from what i see lurking the forum it's a large chunk of the PvE side thinking theirs is god's gift to humanity and refuse to actually engage in discussion but would rather troll, be condescending to other points and generally ignoring any valid argument in favour of repeating the same thing again and again as if it makes it true. Zero is a great example of this.

People modding to play a new way were always single player and offline though, the coop mod is not the same, because its actively taking people out that should be in the online coop player pool, so its not comparable.

The problem i have with the "it's not comparable", most people that i know are using Randomizers or any mod to modify the experience were either solo player that were doing online activities from time to time, or coop player that finished the game and their buddy stopped playing, we have not enough data to draw conclusions since we only have two Data: the Steam Charts wich is only Peak Player count and not daily users, and the mod's unique download

What are you doing here with your logic? Its not allowed here !

[Chopper]

oh no! Anyway,