Seamless COOP mod has ruined Eldin ring multiplayer

[RobbySkaz]

Started a new character to do another run of the game after not playing it ever since the dark souls 3 servers came back on, and I’m shocked at how empty and dead this game seems now (even with healthy steam player numbers)

No summon signs practically anywhere, I may have seen 4 total signs available in 4 ish hours of play, not to mention the 3-5 minute matching times for a single invasion.

I totally understand the appeal of the coop mod as it eliminates the summon system alot of players find annoying but the trade off being basically no player activity in the vanilla game seems terrible.

I was expecting to come back to Eldin ring and see double or even triple the amount of summon signs as dark souls 3 with being such an old game but it’s literally the total opposite.

I believe this all stems from the decision of making invasions only target 2+ players (old news) and the lower cap on how many phantoms can be in one world at once, also the lack of covanents to add rewards to PVP for players. The New Seamless Coop mod is just the final nail in the coffin it seems.

Maybe I am the outlier in thinking this is going to be a negative to the overall game, if so I’m curious to hear your take on it.

To any players who are just totally put off by the PVP aspect I highly recommend you Give it a try, the invasion system that the souls games (and ER) has is one of a kind.

(PS if you are one of the ppl who invades into level 15 player worlds with twink’d out high level gear and armor just to stomp new players YOU are a major part of the problem pushing players away from this side of the game)



Edit - Even looking at the major Eldin Ring discords or LFG groups will reinforce this, i"d say 50% at least of the players active in the LFG discord channels are all using the Mod.

[zero]

Him původně napsal:

Autoro původně napsal:

What do you know, the pro-invader guy who was saying co-op players were toxic got himself banned (likely temporarily) for his toxic as hell behavior... And he wonders why I, and multiple others say 'Invaders opened hostilities between the communities'.

As for the mod... It's not killing multiplayer. If anything, it's helping the game by bringing in people who otherwise completely wrote it off due to the annoying system in place for the game.

We get it you hate invader !

You must wake up every night to hate invaders even more.

it has nothing to do with invaders, it has to do with seamless co-op.

you and that guy honestly just wanna argue for no reason, and he got put in time out for it cause he openly threw insults around.

like really: people are allowed to dislike features of a game, and they are allowed to do what they wish with the game they bought as long as they aren't affecting other people.

which, due to the fact that the mod never interacts with the online services, means nobody is affected by it that isn't using the mod itself.

it's a win win, as invasions are still active, and the people who want to play through the game without the hassle of re-summoning/de-summoning non stop

[GoreTiger]

pvp in ER is a sad broken mess so why would anyone want to have it constantly interrupting and being forced to engage in it when you're just looking to enjoy an adventure with your friend?
It's no surprise that the Mod is doing so well, Hopefully the devs take the hint and change the invasion mechanics so people can at least opt out of them in coop.

[Aenarion]

zero původně napsal:

like really: people are allowed to dislike features of a game, and they are allowed to do what they wish with the game they bought as long as they aren't affecting other people.

which, due to the fact that the mod never interacts with the online services, means nobody is affected by it that isn't using the mod itself.

Except it is and will continue too. Less people playing on the official servers does affect other people. It's less online activity both for random coops and for invaders as now the pool is smaller and the existing coop sessions are under more and more pressure because of it.

It's absolutely not a "win win" for everybody, its very obvious you have your bias take. Player segregation is NEVER a good thing.

[zero]

Aenarion původně napsal:

zero původně napsal:

like really: people are allowed to dislike features of a game, and they are allowed to do what they wish with the game they bought as long as they aren't affecting other people.

which, due to the fact that the mod never interacts with the online services, means nobody is affected by it that isn't using the mod itself.

Except it is and will continue too. Less people playing on the official servers does affect other people. It's less online activity both for random coops and for invaders as now the pool is smaller and the existing coop sessions are under more and more pressure because of it.

It's absolutely not a "win win" for everybody, its very obvious you have your bias take. Player segregation is NEVER a good thing.

you are much like the other guy working under the assumption that the people were using the official servers to start with as opposed to just playing single/offline, which is the same flaw: you have no way of objectively stating they were part of the invasion pool to start with.

so yes, it is a win win, cause the invasion pool still exists, you can still get instant invasions, & people can also use the mod.

you aren't being affected when someone isn't interacting with you, the lack of action isn't an action itself lol.

[Autoro]

Aenarion původně napsal:

Oh look, someone gets reported (likely by you or zero it seems) and you literally take the first chance you get to be toxic about it because now you know you're safe from retaliation lol. Toxicity takes many forms, and yours comes from a condescending mightier than thou attitude.

Anyway, your point is kinda silly when its getting people used to a system that isnt part of their games, isnt officially supported, and won't be part of their future games. So we'll just have the same whining all over again then.

Well, first off, I never said I wasn't above low-blows. Dude acted like an ass, and got what he deserved. That being said, my hands are clean of any reports. I just block them, then move on with my life because I know that'll agitate people like Shinkiro or Him much more than engaging with them and their fallacies.

In regards to the mod, the mod will still be there when new Fromsoft games are released, so that's null'n'void, and chances are this mod will inspire others to make seamless co-op mods, or private-server mods for the souls series, and any game that might be released down the line. The only whining that'll persist is invaders whining about a mod that functionally just makes more players play offline from the From servers.

Co-Op players may ask a lot, repeatedly, when a seamless co-op mod is releasing for a given From game, now that it's been shown as not only possible, but popular.

[fauxpas]

Aenarion původně napsal:

zero původně napsal:

like really: people are allowed to dislike features of a game, and they are allowed to do what they wish with the game they bought as long as they aren't affecting other people.

which, due to the fact that the mod never interacts with the online services, means nobody is affected by it that isn't using the mod itself.

Except it is and will continue too. Less people playing on the official servers does affect other people. It's less online activity both for random coops and for invaders as now the pool is smaller and the existing coop sessions are under more and more pressure because of it.

It's absolutely not a "win win" for everybody, its very obvious you have your bias take. Player segregation is NEVER a good thing.

Then the solution is to attempt to improve the system so more players are willing to engage with it, but that's not a discussion Invaders are ready to have.

As for segregating the player base, the vanilla system already does that by splitting people into offline play, solo play, and hosting.

That makes your point largely moot unless you are simply "anti-mod" in every case since ALL mods have the exact same effect and trying to argue a blanket anti-mod stance for PC gaming isn't going to be met with much support.

[Aenarion]

zero původně napsal:

Aenarion původně napsal:

Except it is and will continue too. Less people playing on the official servers does affect other people. It's less online activity both for random coops and for invaders as now the pool is smaller and the existing coop sessions are under more and more pressure because of it.

It's absolutely not a "win win" for everybody, its very obvious you have your bias take. Player segregation is NEVER a good thing.

you are much like the other guy working under the assumption that the people were using the official servers to start with as opposed to just playing single/offline, which is the same flaw: you have no way of objectively stating they were part of the invasion pool to start with.

so yes, it is a win win, cause the invasion pool still exists, you can still get instant invasions, & people can also use the mod.

you aren't being affected when someone isn't interacting with you, the lack of action isn't an action itself lol.

So your logic is they are playing coop but arent normally part of the invasion pool?

Do you actually read what you type? You call my assumption flawed but yours is just beyond that. I'd love to see how they'd be playing coop offline :)

Back at you You have no way to objectively state they weren't part of the invasion pool to start with.

[zero]

Aenarion původně napsal:

zero původně napsal:

you are much like the other guy working under the assumption that the people were using the official servers to start with as opposed to just playing single/offline, which is the same flaw: you have no way of objectively stating they were part of the invasion pool to start with.

so yes, it is a win win, cause the invasion pool still exists, you can still get instant invasions, & people can also use the mod.

you aren't being affected when someone isn't interacting with you, the lack of action isn't an action itself lol.

So your logic is they are playing coop but arent normally part of the invasion pool?

Do you actually read what you type? You call my assumption flawed but yours is just beyond that. I'd love to see how they'd be playing coop offline :)

Back at you You have no way to objectively state they weren't part of the invasion pool to start with.

i mean yes, using the co-op mod means you aren't part of the invasion pool.

but here is the question: how do you know that when they were playing without the mod they were part of the pool to start with?

or did you choose to ignore me saying that to you literally in the quote before to try to make this strawman?
and i dont need to prove they weren't part of it, you cant prove inaction, cause it has no affect lmao, if you wanna claim they're being removed from the pool in a meaningful way: go ahead and prove it, but until then, the point remains the same;

the people using the mod function identically to people playing solo or offline, and if they aren't an issue, neither is the mod, as you aren't entitled to invading specific people, the game has never allowed that to start with.

[Autoro]

Aenarion původně napsal:

Back at you You have no way to objectively state they weren't part of the invasion pool to start with.

So it's a net-zero argument either way, and doesn't matter. Invasions are still easy to do, based on RL and Weapon Upgrades, and co-op is still possible in both vanilla and through seamless co-op. These are both things that any of us can do, at any time, and that's a fact.

So no one is affected.

[vaanomega]

Aenarion původně napsal:

zero původně napsal:

like really: people are allowed to dislike features of a game, and they are allowed to do what they wish with the game they bought as long as they aren't affecting other people.

which, due to the fact that the mod never interacts with the online services, means nobody is affected by it that isn't using the mod itself.

Except it is and will continue too. Less people playing on the official servers does affect other people. It's less online activity both for random coops and for invaders as now the pool is smaller and the existing coop sessions are under more and more pressure because of it.

It's absolutely not a "win win" for everybody, its very obvious you have your bias take. Player segregation is NEVER a good thing.

In the end, it's only opinion vs opinion, we can't be sure that the mod did affect the online as much as we can't be sure it didn't,
but with the logic about the mod affecting the online community, all mods could had been guilty of that, since a mod could potentially attract people for some new way of playing their game
But even without the mod, some poeple could also have quit the game, and this would also affect the community

[Aenarion]

Autoro původně napsal:

Well, first off, I never said I wasn't above low-blows. Dude acted like an ass, and got what he deserved. That being said, my hands are clean of any reports. I just block them, then move on with my life because I know that'll agitate people like Shinkiro or Him much more than engaging with them and their fallacies.

I don't buy that lol, not with your attitude. Besides blocking them does nothing regarding the steam forums, that's just for profile and personal message related communication. You clearly dont "move on" when you seemingly comment on their ban very shortly after it happens lol and even specifically target them because your safe from them replying.

Autoro původně napsal:

In regards to the mod, the mod will still be there when new Fromsoft games are released, so that's null'n'void, and chances are this mod will inspire others to make seamless co-op mods, or private-server mods for the souls series, and any game that might be released down the line. The only whining that'll persist is invaders whining about a mod that functionally just makes more players play offline from the From servers.

There's absolutely no guarantee their future games will have a mod to support this again. People will always whine no matter what.

Autoro původně napsal:

Co-Op players may ask a lot, repeatedly, when a seamless co-op mod is releasing for a given From game, now that it's been shown as not only possible, but popular.

They have been asking for this for a decade and more lol. FROM havent shifted their design in all that time.

[Hektik]

RobbySkaz původně napsal:

Started a new character to do another run of the game after not playing it ever since the dark souls 3 servers came back on, and I’m shocked at how empty and dead this game seems now (even with healthy steam player numbers)

No summon signs practically anywhere, I may have seen 4 total signs available in 4 ish hours of play, not to mention the 3-5 minute matching times for a single invasion.

I totally understand the appeal of the coop mod as it eliminates the summon system alot of players find annoying but the trade off being basically no player activity in the vanilla game seems terrible.

I was expecting to come back to Eldin ring and see double or even triple the amount of summon signs as dark souls 3 with being such an old game but it’s literally the total opposite.

I believe this all stems from the decision of making invasions only target 2+ players (old news) and the lower cap on how many phantoms can be in one world at once, also the lack of covanents to add rewards to PVP for players. The New Seamless Coop mod is just the final nail in the coffin it seems.

Maybe I am the outlier in thinking this is going to be a negative to the overall game, if so I’m curious to hear your take on it.

To any players who are just totally put off by the PVP aspect I highly recommend you Give it a try, the invasion system that the souls games (and ER) has is one of a kind.

(PS if you are one of the ppl who invades into level 15 player worlds with twink’d out high level gear and armor just to stomp new players YOU are a major part of the problem pushing players away from this side of the game)

:praisesun:

Edit - Even looking at the major Eldin Ring discords or LFG groups will reinforce this, i"d say 50% at least of the players active in the LFG discord channels are all using the Mod.

I started co-oping a bout a month ago to spicy up playing through the game. I don't know what it was like at the release but I don't have any trouble summoning anyone in high traffic areas. When I stray off the beaten path into more obscure areas of the world I see less signs but still normally see at least 1 sign within 5ish minutes. I notice my blue phantom thingy only seems to summon me when I'm afk. I stopped invading after the first week of trying out online play because the player base is so toxic to invaders.

tl;dr: I'm finding it easy to find co-op players in vanilla ER. Higher rate of success on the golden path.

[zero]

Aenarion původně napsal:

Autoro původně napsal:

Co-Op players may ask a lot, repeatedly, when a seamless co-op mod is releasing for a given From game, now that it's been shown as not only possible, but popular.

They have been asking for this for a decade and more lol. FROM havent shifted their design in all that time.

from has literally shifted their design in every single souls game they have released, it has been more and more diffcult to invade poeple, (or specifically: has gotten more and more requirements over time)

dark souls 1 they just needed to be human and the boss is alive, now they need to be human, boss is up, have a summon and your weapon has to be within a reasonable level to theirs otherwise you cannot invade them.

multiplayer will always change until they get it the way they want.

in the end though its the same as its always been on pc, theres been mods for every single souls game, and there will be going forward, it cant really be stopped.

but thankfully its not an issue until it impacts other players, randomizer mods affected people in ds1 cause it changed how enemies "helped" the invader and it also connected to the same online service.

but with the co-op mod, this doesn't happen, cause it doesn't connect to the core game, so the only people affected are the ones using the mod and nobody else.

[Autoro]

Aenarion původně napsal:

Snip

Could I get you to at least rent it? Because my comment was less "AHA! I AM SAFE NAOW! I CAN DO WHAT I PLEASE WITH NO REPERCUSSIONS!", and more "Damn bro, the guy saying co-op players are more toxic got banned because of his toxicity lmao".

I mean, I'm not an invader, after all. I like my fights fair, whenever they happen, and wherever they happen.

[Eagle Eye Jack]

FROMSOFT ruined ER multiplayer, seamless CO-OP tried to fix it.