i thought playing mage was supposed to be easier

[slommi❣]

beat the game with a melee dude, wanted to try out cool builds started with a mage to try out int stuff, and while i am breezing through some parts that gave me trouble with a melee boy, other parts became a huge wall that i have to put so much effort into breaking through, in 20 hours of mage i got frustrated more times than in the entirety of my 140 hour first run. like is playing mage so different than melee that i have to rewire my gamer brain or something, how are you supposed to play mage, i feel like im doing it wrong.

[Lenox]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Gigan:

Mages rely on specific gear/stats, spells and stacking damage. It's more complicated to complete a strong build than melee is, but it's the least mechanically demanding style to play in terms of actual skill once you've finished a build. Basically just easy nuke everything to death from a safe distance.

Even bleed builds at least require you to get into melee range and dodge an attack or 2 before the enemy/boss evaporates.

True. Definitely less button pressing to play a mage. But more thinking before the pull. Would it be true to say that it requires more intelligence beforehand?

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από C1REX-PL:

Melee builds don’t need much. STR and DEX are optional at the first half of the game and it’s easy to reach 60 VGR. Damage mostly comes from weapon upgrades and not from stats below lvl100. Later on STR gives access to heavy shields and also adds to phisical damage reduction what is very usefull.

I finished the games multiple times and melee was the easiest for me. Mage builds feel more complicated. Many spells are weak and you really need to know what spells, talismans and staffs to use. Some talismans additionally reduce your defence making mages even more squishy.

Because of weapon arts melee builds have access to magic like skills. Some of them are very powerful and usually cost very little FP.

Maybe for some players mages are the easiest but not for me. I think mages aren’t easy mode in this game. Especially below lvl150.

I could type up something fancy explaining it but you basically said it perfectly. I agree with all of this.

However, mages are easier than melee when using spirits in in short co-op fights. But in long co-op fights, you might run out of blues.

[DragonSoundxSG]

Mage is EZ mode bc the AI + open world is rife for ambushes and artillery. It's a different approach, but it crushes. I highly recommend the Shield talisman if you feel too squishy. And the Moon talisman is great to allow more of late game spells.

[Naewyng]

I usually carry a casting weapon in one hand and a melee weapon in the other when playing as a mage, gets the job done from afar, and if enemies want a closer look they get fked in melee ;)

[Sifer2]

Don't really agree past early game. I switched to Mage in Elden Ring because everything does too much damage. One mistake on a boss in melee now is pretty much death. All you need to win as Mage is Rock Sling pretty much. Pairs perfectly with that busted overpowered staff you can get 5 minutes into the game if you know where to go. There are other situational spells you can add in to be even more deadly but most of them are useless compared to Rock Sling.

[Lenox]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Sifer2:

Don't really agree past early game. I switched to Mage in Elden Ring because everything does too much damage. One mistake on a boss in melee now is pretty much death. All you need to win as Mage is Rock Sling pretty much. Pairs perfectly with that busted overpowered staff you can get 5 minutes into the game if you know where to go. There are other situational spells you can add in to be even more deadly but most of them are useless compared to Rock Sling.

Did you use Rock Sling with or without spirits?

[Jeremiah Gottwald]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Sifer2:

All you need to win as Mage is Rock Sling pretty much. Pairs perfectly with that busted overpowered staff you can get 5 minutes into the game if you know where to go. There are other situational spells you can add in to be even more deadly but most of them are useless compared to Rock Sling.

Sir, my pure sorcer wants to have a word with you.
This is just wrong. Just. Wrong.

But to make a reasonable argument with people like you, who just stand there and use only the most op things in an ultra hybrid pve build and/or shout bold statements without reason, is darn difficult to borderline impossible.

I can only say: Play a pure sorcer yourself at minimum NG+2 and in the level bracket of 200 to 250 (totally reasonable for NG+2) and then we talk again.

[Casval Zem Daikun]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

I kind of feel bad its like I'm bullying a child. You basically threw your lego onto the ground and stomped your feet that you can't come up with a good argument and start speaking nonsense.

I would've thought there's a very clear difference between a veteran of the game and someone playing for the first time. But here I am being told it's nonsense. It's almost like context matters except it doesn't when you're waving your ♥♥♥♥ in front of a fan emboldened with the signature of your favorite game.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

There are very few duo bosses in the game. There are 238 bosses in the game and only 8 boss fights have more than one boss. Your argument applies to literally 3.3% of the game's bosses. Can you say desperate much?

That's nice. What I said, boldened for the topics you missed:

Sure, I'll just go ahead and memorize enemy layout in every relevant area of the game. On what pretense does this argument even take place? I doubt a first time caster is going to have this luxury. At least not without a lot of trial and error.

As for kiting, sure dude. I could kite these 4 enemies back to the grace or I could just... use my straight sword to hit and dodge roll for a few meters. I believe you. Gap closing attacks aren't entire combos that last multiple seconds. Until they are, and it does happen. But to you it doesn't. So, I dunno what to tell you. I guess the sun doesn't rise in the morning for you either.

I guess gank squad bosses are also on the list of not relevant.

Ironically, there aren't that many gank squad bosses required to beat DkS2 but that game gets enough attention for gank bosses that it's become a meme.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

You also assume that range carries absolutely no advantage even in multi boss fights or solo boss fights (aka 96.3% of the game) and try to totally and completely discredit the range advantage stating you "don't even know what scenario you're arguing".

Yes. I say this because you're a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idiot.
Know what the great advantage of range is? Having range.
Know how to protect that advantage? Maintaining range.

Please, tell me how you're maintaining this on the vast majority of required story bosses who have constantly spammed gap closers and room wide attacks/teleports. I'll fact check.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

Seriously? Do you even know where you are or what year this is? I mean, this doesn't look good for you no matter how you approach it you know?

Arguing with mirrors isn't cute.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

Even if there was more than one boss you act like the player can't keep away from both, can't use a spell that is fast casting to hit the one far away or can't use a fast melee spell to hit the close one or even the heavier stagger melee spells.

Hey look, we're side stepping the point.
Sure, let's take your example. I could totally beat [insert boss here] with 0 damage taken by spamming pebble over 20 minutes. Or I could do it in 3 minutes with a melee build.
I guess this makes magic the instant win button.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

You also forget that you can summon spirit ashes which can easily help rectify the multiple boss issue

Weird, it seems like spirit summons scale to your levels/stats. At least, that's how it seemed on every low level build I played taking on end game bosses. But we'll pretend like scaling doesn't exist for the sake of your ♥♥♥♥♥♥ argumment.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

Enclosed areas with mobs? Again, you can use close range faster spells

I can also stab mobs with a dagger instead of my UGS.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

Gap closing? Why not just dodge it, block it

Because I don't have a rolling R1 on spellcasts, you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wet wipe.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

Arena wide attacks? I'm sorry, this isn't Star Ocean.

Hourah Loux, Elden Beast, and incessantly chasing enemies would like a word with you. Not to mention the enemies who are far more likely to used ranged attacks when you're at, y'know, range.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

Mobility is a factor because fast cast spells

Ah, yes. The "use pebblee to kill" it argument.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

Something else

Ngl, I didn't even bother to read the rest of this. These arguments are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ridiculous to purpose magic as the instant win button. You impose a strict set of requirements on the stat spread involved, spells involved, don't bother to mention catalysts because apparently that doesn't matter, don't establish context as to what kind of player you're even arguing for, and honestly I don't even care to continue this.

Wanna think magic is the instant win button? Sure. I can't think of much that isn't a magic win button with enough research and forethought. I guess the sun rises at night for you too.
♥♥♥♥ off.

[slommi❣]

shifting around some stats and finding a way to play mage im more comfortable with, it's helped out in the bits i had trouble with, think i might go strenght mage, do a battlemaster hughes cosplay. thanks lads

[Heimdall313]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Senki:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Heimdall313:

If its something that dodges a lot, like Black Knife Assassains, Magic Glintblade is cheap, strong, and breaks AI read-input (dodges on the harmless sigil cast, does not dodge actual blade). Its stupid but it works. Helps against shields too.

Would also add Night Comet. It's special effect is literally that enemies do not see it so they don't even try to dodge.

Fighting Malenia with this is like kicking a baby.

Oh is that the point of it? I was wondering what the hell its supposed to do lol

[Lenox]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από hyperu demonru❣:

shifting around some stats and finding a way to play mage im more comfortable with, it's helped out in the bits i had trouble with, think i might go strenght mage, do a battlemaster hughes cosplay. thanks lads

That sounds really fun. I've always wanted to do a hybrid str / int playthrough.

Will you use Starscourge Greatsword?

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Heimdall313:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Senki:

Would also add Night Comet. It's special effect is literally that enemies do not see it so they don't even try to dodge.

Fighting Malenia with this is like kicking a baby.

Oh is that the point of it? I was wondering what the hell its supposed to do lol

It's been a while, so I don't remember exact numbers. But not only does Night Comet not get seen by enemies, therefore they can't dodge (Malenia) or catch it (Radagon), but with the Staff of loss in the other hand, it's also higher damage than Comet. I want to say it's like 10-15% higher damage. And at slightly lower FP and stamina cost.

It has a significantly lower INT investment too. But I didn't care about that part since my Astrologer has 80 INT.

Unsure about range, projectile speed, and cast speed comparisons.

For my Godfrey Icon Astrologer, it was fun to use NIght Comet when I wanted to be long-range.

[Xengre]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Casval Zem Daikun:

Ok.
What you said:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

Melee typically levels 60 Vigor, some endurance, Str or Dex as the most common setup.

Huh, looks like 3 stats: HP, Stamina, and the damaege scaling stat.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

Mage levels 60 Vigor (at least it should be tbh), eventually some int (faith too if they want to be more flexible magic user outside roleplay), some Mind. They can also invest in some End, too, but it isn't as necessary as in DS3 though it does somewhat limit their sheer one round offensive output not doing so.

And here you mention HP, the damage scaling stat, and Mind, but casually leave out stamina.
I must've forgotten we're playing the game where casting spells doesn't involve stamina.

Forgive my immense ignorance but it would seem that 4 is greater than 3. But I'm assuming you have an excuse for this too.

I made bold the problem with this comment. Do you see where you screwed up?

Yes, its the part where you said I left out stamina despite it clearly showing their in bold being addressed. You do realize the Endurance stat governs stamina correct? I also addressed the stamina stat in my prior post as well that you neglected and incorrectly counted stats in (because yes, you failed to count and read twice).

I then clarified further stating that casting in Elden Ring is much more stamina light than DS3. Spells often almost always cost an immense amount of stamina in DS3 but in Elden Ring they typically do not, including even the most powerful end game spells. Additionally, many players spells will be cast from a distance meaning you aren't using stamina to dodge as frequently as at melee range so you have more lax stamina needs compared to melee. However, if you are in close range you aren't going to be rapid firing spells non-stop otherwise you're going to eat hits. There will be a balance of dodging and spell casting just like with melee. In fact, I don't feel that melee has too heavy a need for stamina in Elden Ring, either, aside from heavier weapons and stamina's potency in PvP (unlike PvE). Try casting spells with a level 1 Wretch's base stamina. Its not even that bad, and there are some great stamina supporting equipment and flasks if you need it for a particular fight. While I'm aware I'm used to playing with low stamina in challenge runs than the typical player even the typical player shouldn't feel excessively stretched with even base stamina as a caster. Sure, more is nice if you aren't the best at managing stamina but its not nearly as important as it is for melee. Clearly your lack of experience using magic has made you unaware of this fact, though.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Casval Zem Daikun:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

Lets pull from your failed statement and analyze:
Why the heck would a caster be using a weapon with 30 Str?

The better question is why would someone make a blanket statement like this. But we'll casually sidestep that for now.

Please stick to coherent English so the class can lecture you. What are you trying to say here exactly? You're the one who made the blanket statement acting like a mage had to have some 30 Str lol... That wouldn't be a normal magic build. That would be a magic heavbladesman hybrid or something at that point. Its no wonder you want to casually sidestep this point. I mean, were you drunk when you made the post? lol

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Casval Zem Daikun:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

There are plenty of weapons that a mage can use that would require zero or very low stat investments into

Weird, feels like I already made this point.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

As I said...
Melee would want Vigor, some end, an offensive stat (typically str or dex) for scaling at some point.
A magic build would want Vigor, some mind, their magic stat (Int or Str, unless going hybrid).

Someone call the police, the goalposts are moving again.
As I pointed out earlier, you casually left out a basic stat. Aside from that, the weapon of choice is going to require some str or dex investment. Something a pure melee build is not going to bother with. The weapons that require an Int or Fth investment are not weapons that a melee build is going to use. But we'll also pretend like that doesn't exist.

No, you just omitted the portion covering the issue of stamina out of your quote to avoid context. The main reason a melee user considers stamina is because melee typically is more stamina intensive due to the close quarter nature and because Endurance also increases ability to carry heavier amounts of equipment. If you are a lighter build then in truth a melee wouldn't need stamina, either, if the player is decent at stamina management. If using jump attacks it would also be appreciated as a melee.

As for Str & Dex I pointed out that there are a large number of weapons a magic user can utilize that have literally 0 additional stat requirements in Str or Dex, and another large number that require a ring or headgear to equip with still no stat point investment, and/or you can just invest a couple of points. A large number of weapons in the game need less than 20 str/dex and you get 20 Str by 2h at 14 Str so it has even less demands. I'm sorry, but most typical builds don't use your insane 30 Str and stuff. Some may, but most do not and certainly not until later portions of the game. Heck, the popular Moonveil Katana, for instance, only requires a Wretch to invest 3 points into Dex and then equip the +5 Dex Ring or Ragadon Soreseal. If they use a headgear with bonus Dex its even less. You act like they're investing insane amounts of stats into Str & Dex because you can't come up with a better argument and got proven full of nonsense.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Casval Zem Daikun:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xengre:

You can round out a mage with a minimal investment

This is when I stopped reading this paragraph. Notice the language used: minimal. Minimal is not a synonym for "none". There are stat investments required for the weapon of choice. If you are playing a mage and "enjoy" a weapon, you will, far more likely than not, spread your stat distribution thinner from investing into the weapon's stats than a melee build would for stupidly using an Int/Fth scaling weapon.

Wow, it's almost like it requires more stat points for a magic user to remain relevant to a melee user while also having the ability to cast spells that are worth casting over pressing R1. Whowouldathunkit

Honestly, just seeing comments like this screams immaturity and acceptance of defeat in a debate/discussion.

As you can see I did not lie and claim zero in every typical magic build, but admitted its generally minimal. It can absolutely be zero, but its more general to acknowledge as minimal, however, this minimal you are acting like is "a lot" which is the total opposite of being honest in contrast to my statements. As it was already shown when you're putting in some 2-5 points, give or take approximately, into non-core stats like Dex this isn't some huge sacrifice. This is a very tiny fraction of your overall stat points and you pretending otherwise only makes you look like a joke to everyone here because you're obviously spinning nonsense.

You also don't even consider how stats scale, or the soft and hardcaps.

Worst is how you act so condescending while making a total joke of yourself.

Oh, and you also said you stopped reading there and didn't quote the rest of that paragraph which just so happens to have the next sentence discussing stamina for a caster which your post rants on about me not taking in as a factor. Oh, but that would go against your agenda. ;)

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Casval Zem Daikun:

I really didn't even care to read the rest of this.
♥♥♥♥ off mate.

lol this is some salt

As for your subsequent post I was looking it over to respond but its so damn incoherent I actually cannot properly respond to it. It's all over the place spewing random nonsense that has me reeling. Do you typically post on these forums while under the influence of something cause this seems to be a trend with you, and it is obvious the problem isn't your English skills.

I notice how you avoided two massive posts of mine and basically just raged about me not factoring in stamina, str, or dex, when I did but you can neither count or read properly in your current... state.

I also find it quite amusing you skipped the entire resource efficiency section you were originally so proud of when I broke down the numbers involving prayers and Cerulean flask efficiency vs Crimson, even for a melee character. Heh.

Obviously, you've got some issues. It is also quite clear you're totally unqualified to be arguing with anyone about this game's mechanics, how to build (anything), or optimal play so I will not continue to waste time on you because you've made it clear you have no problem lying and making up total BS.

[Xengre]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Heimdall313:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Senki:

Would also add Night Comet. It's special effect is literally that enemies do not see it so they don't even try to dodge.

Fighting Malenia with this is like kicking a baby.

Oh is that the point of it? I was wondering what the hell its supposed to do lol

Yeah, some of the spells like that one don't prompt a dodge or block from the AI. It's treated as invisible. Great vs something like Crucible Knight or dodge happy enemies. Gowyrn or w/e his name is sells a few spells with some neat AI implications such as back attacks, etc. The ambush one is cool for some terrain or distance reasons since it spawns near their area, from behind, instead of traveling from you. Just be aware it can be blocked despite coming from behind in some instances as odd as this is.

[Get Donked On]

Pathetic fake mage advice in this discussion. if you have 10 or more vigor you are a poser, real mages summon idiots to take the hits and then spam spells. ( I know it is bad advice but its a lot more fun than making every charachter with 45+ vigor). anyway as someone that for some reason tought it a good idea to beat the entire game at 9 vigor i can tell ya. playing mage has a lot of attacks designed at countering your bs that melee characters dont have to deal with. fire giant is probably the worst in that aspect but most bosses have something. it also doesnt help that when I play mage my brain screams at me to roll backwards even if thats a bad idea.

anyways mage just requires you to be either really good at dodging and aggro managing if you have big D energy and dont level vigor or you have to go boring mode and go hybrid wich will most likely just end up with you spammin moonveil/ the ice simp sword.

in conclusion go faith/int caster its fun and F vigor abuse eveything else its a hell of a lot of fun