Glintstone Pebble

[Dollmaker]

Yeah im starting to believe this might be more annoying than Rivers.

At least Rivers is "possible" to survive, you get hit by Pebble... youre just dead, even at max HP, only way you survive is if the User straight up didnt properly build on it at all or used a weak weapon, which is unlikely.

This thing isnt even that hard to land... i honestly cant believe i used to defend this in the past, that was before i realized how much dmg it really did, when i was working on my Mage build i missed this, since i did noticed it was doing nearly double the dmg than most of my spells, i first though "Its likely cause Weapon Upgrade and my Scaling isnt good enough for my spells!!" i was dead wrong, even with my build already finished, this thing still hits like a nuke and one shoting.

Honestly, all these ridiculously high dmg Ashes of War or weapons or builds or whatever are just boring, its just a fight to see who instantly kills the other first, as flawed as it was, at least DS3 had better balance than ER by a huge margin, for the most part the really high damaging attacks belonged to slower weapons, but here, its largely from fast weapons...

Like how much BS we have that are like this? Rivers, G. Pebble, Moonveil, Dual Bleed Naginata, Seppuku, chain casting different spells which can even be glitched out, could also add CS poke which is better than freaking spears, speaking of which, Dual spears/great spears, etc, the list goes on.

Man its just frustrating...

I know people meme on the "nerf everything" thing but honestly a lot of things do need to get nerfed, and others do need to get buffed, such has Daggers, Small Hammer, Small Axes, Flails, etc.

And i know someone is gonna bring this up, you dont need this on PvE, theres plenty of weapons that are more than viable without being busted that can easily work on PvE, if anything PvE as never been easier than before, you have Spirits (btw, once you get the Tear for Infinite FP, you can use any spirits even without the required FP), you have several Ashes of War that work on different weapons, you have summons, pretty much all of the open world bosses can be cheesed if their giving you that much trouble, etc.

This game has PvP, just like all Souls games before it, and PvP has never been a small part of it, even having bosses dedicated to PvP, Arenas (Which we are 100% getting with those coliseums) , Covenants, the whole Invasion system, theres many examples, so if youre just PvE player, then you gotta understand that wanting the game to be unbalanced by ignoring PvP is plainly being entitled, if you wanna use broken AF stuff, theres Mods for that, and if you wanna avoid PvP thats 100% possible, you wanna Co-Op without invasions? theres that mod coming out, all we want its a balanced game.

[Martini]

I've used a decent amount of glintstone pebble
It's definitely better telegraphed and weaker than something like rob, or pre-nerf moonveil

Maybe it's my build not being built perfectly, but I cannot recall ever one-shotting anyone at the level of ER pvp (150). I could Two-Shot, if they played very stupidly and just rushed me repeatedly.

But there is pretty intuitive counterplay

[Martini]

Originally posted by Martini:

I've used a decent amount of glintstone pebble
It's definitely better telegraphed and weaker than something like rob, or pre-nerf moonveil

Maybe it's my build not being built perfectly, but I cannot recall ever one-shotting anyone at the level of ER pvp (150). I could Two-Shot, if they played very stupidly and just rushed me repeatedly.

But there is pretty intuitive counterplay

overall, as a huge fan of this ash-of-war, I do not mind a damage nerf
But I say this out of consideration for PvE rather than PvP

Its scaling at end-game seems fine to me, but Altus Plateau (ish weapon level) scaling could be nerfed for sure

[Ulmace]

it does surprisingly large damage, and now i also read its less good with cold then with magic infusion

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Ulmace:

it does surprisingly large damage, and now i also read its less good with cold then with magic infusion

Thats cause Cold like most status effects reduce the raw dmg of the weapon.

[SadPlatty©]

Why nerf something AND buff something else simultaneously though?

If you nerf half of the game, since that seems to be what folks want (magic, dragon incants, rot, frost, bleed, rapiers, spears, colossal pokes, beast incant with it's multi-casting, katanas, naginatas, jumping attacks, and I am sure I missed some); why also then scale the other half up before testing?

Or my real question - why not scale the others up instead, and then FROM should review other things like Poise which has arguably been broken in most of their games? Or make some armors better - some headwraps may weigh some obscene amount, and then have like 0 defence; wtf is weight in this game lol.

Edit: my nerf list also being based on threads / posts I see often alone. Some may have been fixed (although others may still disagree, like Bleed).

[Ulmace]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Originally posted by Ulmace:

it does surprisingly large damage, and now i also read its less good with cold then with magic infusion

Thats cause Cold like most status effects reduce the raw dmg of the weapon.

ye i get that, but still on a cold weapon it does surprisingly good damage, i just dont like the windup at that range for pve

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by SadPlatty©:

Why nerf something AND buff something else simultaneously though?

If you nerf half of the game, since that seems to be what folks want (magic, dragon incants, rot, frost, bleed, rapiers, spears, colossal pokes, beast incant with it's multi-casting, katanas, naginatas, jumping attacks, and I am sure I missed some); why also then scale the other half up before testing?

Or my real question - why not scale the others up instead, and then FROM should review other things like Poise which has arguably been broken in most of their games? Or make some armors better - some headwraps may weigh some obscene amount, and then have like 0 defence; wtf is weight in this game lol.

Edit: my nerf list also being based on threads / posts I see often alone. Some may have been fixed (although others may still disagree, like Bleed).

Thing is, we already have some decently balanced weapons to compare things to.

And if you used any of the weapons i listed on the "needs buffs" you would really see why, daggers got it the worst, they are short, low dmg, Backstabs (And even parries) are harder than previous games, overall they suck, they need a new moveset tbh, one that allows them to compensate their short range, such has doing similar stuff to Warcry, making you move further with the attacks.

Small hammer, axes and flails have a TERRIBLE dual moveset, no hyperamor and axes barely even stagger to my knowledge.

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Ulmace:

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Thats cause Cold like most status effects reduce the raw dmg of the weapon.

ye i get that, but still on a cold weapon it does surprisingly good damage, i just dont like the windup at that range for pve

Ah yeah definitely, the dmg of this thing is just absurd.

I didnt really had much trouble using it on PvE though, enemies will usually walk right on it, btw, you can literally just spam the Pebble to perma stagger them to death, its hilarious.

[i killed god]

It mostly one shots on a magic build with a high AR weapon. I agree that the damage it does is stupid high, and the FP:damage ratio is lopsided as all hell. We can only hope FS will nerf it. That said, it's very telegraphed and punishable.

[Holografix]

the problem is crowd-sourcing nerf/buff ideas.

this community (from what i've read on the DS3 forum and Elde Ring forum) does not have the expertise nor data to understand the subtle ramifications of buffs/nerfs.

i'm glad ppl are discussing build variety, but the question I always ask myself: why is so much included in the discussion? the is blinding ppl from discussing things clearly.

[John Titor]

Originally posted by SadPlatty©:

Why nerf something AND buff something else simultaneously though?...

In the industry, we call that a "berf". Berfs have an interesting and sordid history.

In 1879, the international playing card maker H. G. Penderhoggins invented the berf when they made a change to the popular card game "poker". They suggested that a full house should beat a flush. As you can guess, this caused quite an upset in the gaming community. The change gave rise to the Tallahassee Riots, where thousands of card decks were doused in whiskey and set on fire. Approximately 27,000 players had to be treated for severe hand burns due to playing with flaming cards.

Then in 1906...

[Holografix]

Originally posted by John Titor:

Originally posted by SadPlatty©:

Why nerf something AND buff something else simultaneously though?...

In the industry, we call that a "berf". Berfs have an interesting and sordid history.

In 1879, the international playing card maker H. G. Penderhoggins invented the berf when they made a change to the popular card game "poker". They suggested that a full house should beat a flush. As you can guess, this caused quite an upset in the gaming community. The change gave rise to the Tallahassee Riots, where thousands of card decks were doused in whiskey and set on fire. Approximately 27,000 players had to be treated for severe hand burns due to playing with flaming cards.

Then in 1906...

oh this is good.

[SadPlatty©]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Originally posted by SadPlatty©:

Why nerf something AND buff something else simultaneously though?

If you nerf half of the game, since that seems to be what folks want (magic, dragon incants, rot, frost, bleed, rapiers, spears, colossal pokes, beast incant with it's multi-casting, katanas, naginatas, jumping attacks, and I am sure I missed some); why also then scale the other half up before testing?

Or my real question - why not scale the others up instead, and then FROM should review other things like Poise which has arguably been broken in most of their games? Or make some armors better - some headwraps may weigh some obscene amount, and then have like 0 defence; wtf is weight in this game lol.

Edit: my nerf list also being based on threads / posts I see often alone. Some may have been fixed (although others may still disagree, like Bleed).

Thing is, we already have some decently balanced weapons to compare things to.

And if you used any of the weapons i listed on the "needs buffs" you would really see why, daggers got it the worst, they are short, low dmg, Backstabs (And even parries) are harder than previous games, overall they suck, they need a new moveset tbh, one that allows them to compensate their short range, such has doing similar stuff to Warcry, making you move further with the attacks.

Small hammer, axes and flails have a TERRIBLE dual moveset, no hyperamor and axes barely even stagger to my knowledge.

IDK, I did powerstance Bastard's Stars for a bit (flails) and used some daggers reliably. What I never seem to hear/see people talk about though is Reapers which I have always felt where a bit underwhelming except the one in Bloodborne (which also had no PvP - wow, almost like it isn't allowed). Hell, they where broken in DS 2 or 3 even with the hitbox being tiny for critical hits so you needed range AND timing/aim.

And I still stand by my point - if something is optimized right now, and you buffed the weak weapons, are the OP ones still going to be forced/abused when literally any other weapon is viable? Imagine if they buffed the daggers to the point they competed with say - rapiers, at that point I would be more worried folks then flock to daggers as the faster alternative. You may end up making something less viable like colossal weapons altogether unless the hyper armor works or they have stupidly high poise to not get smacked out of every attack and damaged a bunch.

[Narm]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Thing is, we already have some decently balanced weapons to compare things to.

And if you used any of the weapons i listed on the "needs buffs" you would really see why, daggers got it the worst, they are short, low dmg, Backstabs (And even parries) are harder than previous games, overall they suck, they need a new moveset tbh, one that allows them to compensate their short range, such has doing similar stuff to Warcry, making you move further with the attacks.

Small hammer, axes and flails have a TERRIBLE dual moveset, no hyperamor and axes barely even stagger to my knowledge.

I agree about hammers, axes, and flails for the most part, but daggers are good if you know how to use them. I generally use either a dagger or a curved greatsword, depending on my opponent's weapon. Daggers are good against fists, claws, greatswords, and colossal weapons. They're not great against pokey weapons and other fast weapons with more reach. They're also great regardless of a person's weapon if they have low poise.

Bread and butter are jump r2, sprinting r2, and post-roll r1. Daggers work well, but you must know the roll timings for whatever you're fighting against. Against colossal weapons, you can easily get a no-hit win because of the slow swings and long recoveries. It is a chipping weapon that requires careful timing and a patient, somewhat defensive playstyle, with a lot of pulling back and psyching out just to slip a sprinting r2 or jump r2 in when they don't expect it.

The weapons in the game matchup with other weapon types kind of like rock, paper, scissors. Some are kind of useless, like the ones you mentioned, but I have seen someone effectively use powerstanced axes (with flaming strike ash). Never seen any decent flail or small hammer usage though.

But anyways, daggers are great and if you think they aren't then it's operator error. If you want more range, try the glintstone kris. It's basically got a beefed up version of the glintstone pebble ash. I usually run the black knife because its weapon art is great for punishing long animations (dragon incants, elden stars, heal incants, various weapon arts, even sorcerers that consistently cast a combo of spells can be caught with it).

[SadPlatty©]

Originally posted by John Titor:

Originally posted by SadPlatty©:

Why nerf something AND buff something else simultaneously though?...

In the industry, we call that a "berf". Berfs have an interesting and sordid history.

In 1879, the international playing card maker H. G. Penderhoggins invented the berf when they made a change to the popular card game "poker". They suggested that a full house should beat a flush. As you can guess, this caused quite an upset in the gaming community. The change gave rise to the Tallahassee Riots, where thousands of card decks were doused in whiskey and set on fire. Approximately 27,000 players had to be treated for severe hand burns due to playing with flaming cards.

Then in 1906...

All I got from this - is "Berf or (nerf + buff ) = Big Problems" - to which I say, yes. Especially when is involved