How is Cipher Pata good?

[MisterRed]

So, I've been recommended for my faith build to use the cipher pata until I can get the coded sword, which is fair enough, but I do kinda wonder how I'm meant to use this weapon, because judging from my first few fights with it, it has one major issue. The unblockable damage is obviously great, but it seems to do no poise damage? I used it against the Revenger, and I literally couldn't stun them with anything other than the jump attack. So I ended up trading damage a lot. Is there a trick to using it I don't understand, or is this just the price of an unblockable attack

[Amereth]

it is good only against heavy blocking opponent, but it is overall a very basic weapon.

and you talk about poise dmg... fists aren't the best for that.

[Big Moustache]

It has zero weight. it's supposed to be a backup weapon.

[MisterRed]

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

it is good only against heavy blocking opponent, but it is overall a very basic weapon.

and you talk about poise dmg... fists aren't the best for that.

Thats fair, but I definitely need to go get something I can use better to stagger. Which means I'm visiting Redmane early lol. Put fire on a halberd or Lucerne, maybe a short spear

Publicado originalmente por Fragoos:

It has zero weight. it's supposed to be a backup weapon.

This is also fair. But as a pure faith build, this is also one of the few weapons I can access early game with good faith scaling, AKA pre Rykard.

[Climhazzard]

I'm pretty sure the answer is that it's not good, if anything it's terrible.

https://youtu.be/PzPTFC1x0xw

Here's a holy damage playthrough I watched the other day. It's basically an exercise in masochism because many many bosses have high holy resistance. But as to the Cipher Pata, the L2 just whiffs everything.

IF you're doing a Faith build, imo you should consider non holy options. Like lightning.

[MisterRed]

Publicado originalmente por Climhazzard:

I'm pretty sure the answer is that it's not good, if anything it's terrible.

https://youtu.be/PzPTFC1x0xw

Here's a holy damage playthrough I watched the other day. It's basically an exercise in masochism because many many bosses have high holy resistance. But as to the Cipher Pata, the L2 just whiffs everything.

IF you're doing a Faith build, imo you should consider non holy options. Like lightning.

Yeah, my original plan was winged scythe, but for the early game, it requires a lot of stat investments, 16 dex, 16 strength, and my main stat, 24 faith. So I went for Cipher Pata as my starting weapon, and ended up regretting that too.

[Celltastic]

it's purely meant to counter people turtling behind shields
it's not meant to be your main weapon

[Big Moustache]

Keep it upgraded though. Use it as secondary in skeleton dungeons. it does pure holy damage and saves you from stress :)

[Amereth]

Publicado originalmente por MisterRed:

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

it is good only against heavy blocking opponent, but it is overall a very basic weapon.

and you talk about poise dmg... fists aren't the best for that.

Thats fair, but I definitely need to go get something I can use better to stagger. Which means I'm visiting Redmane early lol. Put fire on a halberd or Lucerne, maybe a short spear

Publicado originalmente por Fragoos:

It has zero weight. it's supposed to be a backup weapon.

This is also fair. But as a pure faith build, this is also one of the few weapons I can access early game with good faith scaling, AKA pre Rykard.

pretty sure we already spoke about that yesterday, but just go get the fire whetblade and put
flame of the redmane on any basic weapon that you want to use.

If you don't like flame of the redmane, you can try storm stomp, it is actually very nice to break their stance.

[Nerevar]

its a backup tool like i told you. not your main source of dmg for fights. lob lighting spears at everything. set most of your flasks to fp restore. get as many flasks as you can without fighting by going around the map. done. now you got enough spears to kill most regular enemies. simply restore flasks before boss fights. there is always a grace close by.

melee is simply less effective early on. for that you need the good weapons. winged scythe is a much better weapon overall and you could wield that already if you just grab radogans soreseal. bam requirements meet with most starting classes given you have the faith already. use that thing as backup when fp runs out or low. otherwise use lighting spear. way more dmg. safer. ranged. enemies ignore the projectile.

if youre trying to melee alot youre not really a pure faith build. youre more like a hybird then. but hybirds suck early on as they require alot more stats to work in this game.

[Kalameet]

Publicado originalmente por Celltastic:

it's purely meant to counter people turtling behind shields
it's not meant to be your main weapon

I bet anything can be used as a primary weapon, even this.

Just because you can't stun (Charged Heavy? jump attack?) it doesn't mean it's a terrible primary weapon.

TL;DR: git gud

[MisterRed]

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

Publicado originalmente por MisterRed:

Thats fair, but I definitely need to go get something I can use better to stagger. Which means I'm visiting Redmane early lol. Put fire on a halberd or Lucerne, maybe a short spear




This is also fair. But as a pure faith build, this is also one of the few weapons I can access early game with good faith scaling, AKA pre Rykard.

pretty sure we already spoke about that yesterday, but just go get the fire whetblade and put
flame of the redmane on any basic weapon that you want to use.

If you don't like flame of the redmane, you can try storm stomp, it is actually very nice to break their stance.

Yeah, we did, and in fairness I did go there, but I kept dying running through to a combination of lions and crossbows. So I figured I'd go back for it later, but given how well this is working for me, i'm definitely going back for a bit more death and suffering until I get it

[MisterRed]

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

its a backup tool like i told you. not your main source of dmg for fights. lob lighting spears at everything. set most of your flasks to fp restore. get as many flasks as you can without fighting by going around the map. done. now you got enough spears to kill most regular enemies. simply restore flasks before boss fights. there is always a grace close by.

melee is simply less effective early on. for that you need the good weapons. winged scythe is a much better weapon overall and you could wield that already if you just grab radogans soreseal. bam requirements meet with most starting classes given you have the faith already. use that thing as backup when fp runs out or low. otherwise use lighting spear. way more dmg. safer. ranged. enemies ignore the projectile.

if youre trying to melee alot youre not really a pure faith build. youre more like a hybird then. but hybirds suck early on as they require alot more stats to work in this game.

And I took that advice to heart. I used it to kill the Tree Spirit right beside the revenger's shack, and only had two spears to throw at the Revenger after. Is that my fault? Obviously. Still won against both, but I came here to ask if I chose my melee poorly, which it seems I did

[Amereth]

Publicado originalmente por MisterRed:

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

pretty sure we already spoke about that yesterday, but just go get the fire whetblade and put
flame of the redmane on any basic weapon that you want to use.

If you don't like flame of the redmane, you can try storm stomp, it is actually very nice to break their stance.

Yeah, we did, and in fairness I did go there, but I kept dying running through to a combination of lions and crossbows. So I figured I'd go back for it later, but given how well this is working for me, i'm definitely going back for a bit more death and suffering until I get it

haha, i understand the pain. just spend your rune and go there with 0 rune so you don't lose anything.

and try assassin's approach ( it is an incantation ), it isn't normally worth it since it cost a lot of fp. but in a situation where you want to go in and out without fighting it has its uses.

[Big Moustache]

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

its a backup tool like i told you. not your main source of dmg for fights. lob lighting spears at everything. set most of your flasks to fp restore. get as many flasks as you can without fighting by going around the map. done. now you got enough spears to kill most regular enemies. simply restore flasks before boss fights. there is always a grace close by.

melee is simply less effective early on. for that you need the good weapons. winged scythe is a much better weapon overall and you could wield that already if you just grab radogans soreseal. bam requirements meet with most starting classes given you have the faith already. use that thing as backup when fp runs out or low. otherwise use lighting spear. way more dmg. safer. ranged. enemies ignore the projectile.

if youre trying to melee alot youre not really a pure faith build. youre more like a hybird then. but hybirds suck early on as they require alot more stats to work in this game.

I find lightning spear very lacking in damage output. Burst of frenzy is your faith snipertool

[Amereth]

Publicado originalmente por Fragoos:

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

its a backup tool like i told you. not your main source of dmg for fights. lob lighting spears at everything. set most of your flasks to fp restore. get as many flasks as you can without fighting by going around the map. done. now you got enough spears to kill most regular enemies. simply restore flasks before boss fights. there is always a grace close by.

melee is simply less effective early on. for that you need the good weapons. winged scythe is a much better weapon overall and you could wield that already if you just grab radogans soreseal. bam requirements meet with most starting classes given you have the faith already. use that thing as backup when fp runs out or low. otherwise use lighting spear. way more dmg. safer. ranged. enemies ignore the projectile.

if youre trying to melee alot youre not really a pure faith build. youre more like a hybird then. but hybirds suck early on as they require alot more stats to work in this game.

I find lightning spear very lacking in damage output. Burst of frenzy is your faith snipertool

burst of frenzy = more range, a tiny bit more dmg if you use all buff and madness if it works.

Lightning spear = more consistant dmg, don't require buffs, can move while casting ( that is a big + )


and since nerevar is here , i am sure he will find way more reason to use lightning spear.