Am I stupid or do faith builds suck?

[MisterRed]

I made a thread a few days asking if it was fun, since I wanted to do a faith build for my final achievement run, and the response was about 50/50 between it being unfun vs fun, playing it now, and I'm wondering if I am doing something wrong, because the build feels beyond weak rn at least. I rushed Flame of Frenzy for my attack spell, and that does decent damage, sometimes. My spell slots are Heal, Flame of Frenzy, and Flame Sling. I use a lordsworn straightsword with holy infusion. This is the first time I've struggled with Margit, who guards the Godskin Tome I need for black fire. Both my melee builds easily steamrolled the first boss, while even after grinding more than usual my faith build struggles. Am I missing a vital part of how to do this kind of build, or are there just kinda bad?

[Amereth]

Publicado originalmente por Vinyltavia:

On another note, we have shoulder charge and biblical stoning for faith spells.
You cant tell me that isnt legit a reason to go faith.

the crucible horn is really a fun incantation and it often give you an openning to land something else.

[Nerevar]

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

false. if you use pest threads correctly on a big target it tears it apart. it isnt hard to do that. you just need to know which boss is good. lighting spear beats catch flame by a mile anyway in 90% of fights. faster. more range more dmg aswell in most cases unless enemy is weak to fire.

bosses where pest threads helps alot :

all dragons.
fire giant.
elden beast.

is an incat you must use on the right target for it to be good its situtional unlike lighting spear. never use it on smaller bosses. use lighting spear for them instead. the spear has the advantage than you can either charge it or quickcast it. so you can adjust depending on boss speed and aggresiveness.

like i said if perfectly aligned maybe, by the time you cast 1 prest threst, i cast 3 catch flame and every catch flame do around the same dmg as your pest thread. tested on my 80 faith with erdtree seal on multiple target.

unless your target was a huge one this is irrelevant like i just said there. you dont use pest threads for your average joe enemy. for example the magma wyvern boss. he is very resistant to fire dmg. but has a huge hitbox. target his head. get behind him. spam away. pest threads also deals posture dmg so youll get a knockdown. then dont go for the critical hit. instead spam threads at his head from behind him. youll do WAY more dmg than anything else in your arsenal could.

if your flame did the same dmg you used the spell wrong or choose a bad target to test. its as simple as that. the dmg makes more than up for the positioning required if done right.

[Amereth]

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

like i said if perfectly aligned maybe, by the time you cast 1 prest threst, i cast 3 catch flame and every catch flame do around the same dmg as your pest thread. tested on my 80 faith with erdtree seal on multiple target.

unless your target was a huge one this is irrelevant like i just said there. you dont use pest threads for your average joe enemy. for example the magma wyvern boss. he is very resistant to fire dmg. but has a huge hitbox. target his head. get behind him. spam away. pest threads also deals posture dmg so youll get a knockdown. then dont go for the critical hit. instead spam threads at his head from behind him. youll do WAY more dmg than anything else in your arsenal could.

if your flame did the same dmg you used the spell wrong or choose a bad target to test. its as simple as that. the dmg makes more than up for the positioning required if done right.

dragon, astel, elden beast.

Elden beast is the target that i will agree with you. Pest thread beat catch flame. but anything else, i doubt that.

[Vinyltavia]

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

Publicado originalmente por Vinyltavia:

On another note, we have shoulder charge and biblical stoning for faith spells.
You cant tell me that isnt legit a reason to go faith.

the crucible horn is really a fun incantation and it often give you an openning to land something else.

It is a manly spell to say the least.

[Nerevar]

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

Publicado originalmente por Vinyltavia:

Im using more of the godskin spells as well as the swarm of flies.
If youre dealing with something that can be bled, flies are great.
Godslayer black flame spells dont show their true power until youre fighting things with a meaty healthbar as their hp burn is based on the enemy max health.
Terrible for nobodies but against beefy opponents the health shred shines.

problem with black flames. there is a dagger called black knife that does the same job even better since you can dodge stuff with it. why would you waste a memory slot for a spell that you can easily replace by a little dagger ?

this is incorrect. the black knife doesnt do what black flame does. plus its projectile is HOLY DMG. alot of people dont know this.
plus the move is slower than black flame. and cannot use it on horseback.

[Nerevar]

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

flock is lategame. you cannot kill gowry until you reach the point to either kill or help milicent. they patched that sadly.
forget about the the one in the tunnels for now. its only 4% dmg increase. its okish if you got nothing else and have a spare slot.
favor +2 isnt as good as people think. plus available way too late. for pve get the dragoncrest charm instead to offset the downsides of soreseal on harder enemies.

for trash enemies ritual sword charm is great. it buffs ALL dmg by 10% aslong as hp is full. this is pretty easy to do especially outside and in dungeons. avoid on bosses unless you can manage to not get hit.

if you need more burst dmg for more risk get the lighting scorpion charm. great for trash clearing with lighting spear. easy to get from the tomb its in. no boss needed. but its in altus.

once you can access the royal city get the seal that boots lighting dmg by 15%. these stack. so if you can get a friend to give you a 2nd one DO IT. its a free dps boost in offhand and it works without upgrades. it has slightly worse incant scaling than godslayer seal and erdtree seal but the dmg bonus offsets that entirely for lighting spear and even surpasses it.
erdtree seal is only good once you reach 70 faith. forget about it till then. godslayer is better for pure scaling till 69 faith.

i killed gowry without finishing millicent quest, since i killed her by mistake and decided to kill gowry right after. I received the flock and never completed their quest. i was around level 40-50

well that is an option but you would miss out on items by doing this. not a good idea therefore. the level is fully irrelevant to that.

[Amereth]

Publicado originalmente por Vinyltavia:

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

the crucible horn is really a fun incantation and it often give you an openning to land something else.

It is a manly spell to say the least.

hahaha, i tried to be manly in front of some of the bosses, it didn't end well for me.

[Amereth]

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

i killed gowry without finishing millicent quest, since i killed her by mistake and decided to kill gowry right after. I received the flock and never completed their quest. i was around level 40-50

well that is an option but you would miss out on items by doing this. not a good idea therefore. the level is fully irrelevant to that.

i know, but mistakes were mades :(

level was mostly to give an idea of how early i got it.

[Nerevar]

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

unless your target was a huge one this is irrelevant like i just said there. you dont use pest threads for your average joe enemy. for example the magma wyvern boss. he is very resistant to fire dmg. but has a huge hitbox. target his head. get behind him. spam away. pest threads also deals posture dmg so youll get a knockdown. then dont go for the critical hit. instead spam threads at his head from behind him. youll do WAY more dmg than anything else in your arsenal could.

if your flame did the same dmg you used the spell wrong or choose a bad target to test. its as simple as that. the dmg makes more than up for the positioning required if done right.

dragon, astel, elden beast.

Elden beast is the target that i will agree with you. Pest thread beat catch flame. but anything else, i doubt that.

you can also try it on the dragonkin soldiers and the dragonlord and these fat tree spirit monsters.
astel is not a good target for the spell strangely. his hitbox is alot smaller than he looks like for some reason.
i doubt your catch flame outdamages the spell on dragons if used correctly. i mean boss dragons here. not regular ones. make sure to target the right body part with it.

[Amereth]

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

problem with black flames. there is a dagger called black knife that does the same job even better since you can dodge stuff with it. why would you waste a memory slot for a spell that you can easily replace by a little dagger ?

this is incorrect. the black knife doesnt do what black flame does. plus its projectile is HOLY DMG. alot of people dont know this.
plus the move is slower than black flame. and cannot use it on horseback.

that is an interesting info, holy instead of fire. then there is a reason to use black flame instead.

[Amereth]

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

dragon, astel, elden beast.

Elden beast is the target that i will agree with you. Pest thread beat catch flame. but anything else, i doubt that.

you can also try it on the dragonkin soldiers and the dragonlord and these fat tree spirit monsters.
astel is not a good target for the spell strangely. his hitbox is alot smaller than he looks like for some reason.
i doubt your catch flame outdamages the spell on dragons if used correctly. i mean boss dragons here. not regular ones. make sure to target the right body part with it.

hehe i will definitely try and time it just for the fun of it.

im curious to see if pest thread outdamage my backstab setup with misericorde too.

[MisterRed]

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

Publicado originalmente por Amereth:

problem with black flames. there is a dagger called black knife that does the same job even better since you can dodge stuff with it. why would you waste a memory slot for a spell that you can easily replace by a little dagger ?

this is incorrect. the black knife doesnt do what black flame does. plus its projectile is HOLY DMG. alot of people dont know this.
plus the move is slower than black flame. and cannot use it on horseback.

Im having a hard time keeping up since people are referring to items I never found, but doesn't that mean that the black knife's Ash of War would heal the Elden Beast if I tried to use it on them?

[Amereth]

Publicado originalmente por MisterRed:

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

this is incorrect. the black knife doesnt do what black flame does. plus its projectile is HOLY DMG. alot of people dont know this.
plus the move is slower than black flame. and cannot use it on horseback.

Im having a hard time keeping up since people are referring to items I never found, but doesn't that mean that the black knife's Ash of War would heal the Elden Beast if I tried to use it on them?

yup, unfortunately. so it is a no go against elden beast, but a great tool against everything else in the game. Sorry if you have a hard time to follow, ill try to be more precise.

[Nerevar]

Publicado originalmente por MisterRed:

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

this is incorrect. the black knife doesnt do what black flame does. plus its projectile is HOLY DMG. alot of people dont know this.
plus the move is slower than black flame. and cannot use it on horseback.

Im having a hard time keeping up since people are referring to items I never found, but doesn't that mean that the black knife's Ash of War would heal the Elden Beast if I tried to use it on them?

by the time you get to elden beast you wont be useing that weapon believe me^^ you have WAY better stuff available by then.

if you need infos on items just ask. or use the wiki.

lighting spear is all you need for the start believe me. just make sure to manage you fp correctly and get as many flasks as you can by simplying running around the map collecting golden seeds. most of them require no combat to grab. and assing most flasks to fp restore instead of healing. but always keep 2-3 heal flasks aswell depending on how many you got already.

early game you can also make fp management easy by getting the axe of sacrifice from the death bird outdoor boss in weeping peninsula. equip it in your right hand. seal in the left. now any kill done with spells will restore 4 fp to you. helps when clearing trash.

once you have a good weapon you like just use that for weaklings. safe the spells for bigger foes or enemeys which are annoying to melee. or enemies you just outright HATE ^^

[UnholyDentist]

Publicado originalmente por Nerevar:

Publicado originalmente por UnholyDentist:

Lightning spear, Catch Flame, Pest Threads. Those 3 are the best to start with. You can get them all without fighting. Just ride to Lake and Caelid.

this is only correct for 2 of the 3 you mentioned. pest threads wont be sold by gowry until you handed milicent the prosthetic arm. so she needs to be in altus already. and for her quest to even begin you must defeat a boss. granted you can cheese that boss.

seriously get lighting spear and honed bolt. these just destroy the early to midgame by themselfs.
this also gives you electrify armament. which lasts 90 seconds and buffs weapon dmg based on your faith scaling.
just kill that damn single golden knight. stupid easy with torrent and catch flame from roundtable hold.

You don't need to fight for the prosthetic arm, it's in a chest in Shaded Castle. Pest threads do good damage at range, once you get a decent amount of faith and upgraded weapon, they can outdamage lightning spells.