Am I stupid or do faith builds suck?

[MisterRed]

I made a thread a few days asking if it was fun, since I wanted to do a faith build for my final achievement run, and the response was about 50/50 between it being unfun vs fun, playing it now, and I'm wondering if I am doing something wrong, because the build feels beyond weak rn at least. I rushed Flame of Frenzy for my attack spell, and that does decent damage, sometimes. My spell slots are Heal, Flame of Frenzy, and Flame Sling. I use a lordsworn straightsword with holy infusion. This is the first time I've struggled with Margit, who guards the Godskin Tome I need for black fire. Both my melee builds easily steamrolled the first boss, while even after grinding more than usual my faith build struggles. Am I missing a vital part of how to do this kind of build, or are there just kinda bad?

[Get Donked On]

Escrito originalmente por Sausages:

Faith is excellent, lot's of utility and potential for high damage, all pyromancy scales with faith, you need faith and arcane for dragon breaths (scarlet rot breath works on most enemies), personally been using vykes spear for entire 1st playthrough as it scales with stre, dex and faith and has flame dmg that causes madness which can also be buffed with fire, lend me strength , golden vow stacks on top of fire buff for some pretty high damage and blackfire ball scales with vigour and faith which are going to be levelled anyway, black fireball spam works well for most enemies and if you can get the cast speed down and the godkiller charm even better.

this is solid advice also coded sword / coded fist weapons for going hard into faith and dont be afraid to dual wield seals the incantation boost in dmg applies even if you not casting via the seal so you can have the upgraded erdtree seal to cast with and either the gravel/dragon or godslayer seal in the other hand for spamming ranged attacks at max dmg

[UnholyDentist]

Escrito originalmente por Get Donked On:

Escrito originalmente por Sausages:

Faith is excellent, lot's of utility and potential for high damage, all pyromancy scales with faith, you need faith and arcane for dragon breaths (scarlet rot breath works on most enemies), personally been using vykes spear for entire 1st playthrough as it scales with stre, dex and faith and has flame dmg that causes madness which can also be buffed with fire, lend me strength , golden vow stacks on top of fire buff for some pretty high damage and blackfire ball scales with vigour and faith which are going to be levelled anyway, black fireball spam works well for most enemies and if you can get the cast speed down and the godkiller charm even better.

this is solid advice also coded sword / coded fist weapons for going hard into faith and dont be afraid to dual wield seals the incantation boost in dmg applies even if you not casting via the seal so you can have the upgraded erdtree seal to cast with and either the gravel/dragon or godslayer seal in the other hand for spamming ranged attacks at max dmg

Coded sword is great tool to break shield users who keep 'hiding' behind their shield. They will get a stagger effect if the skill hits them whilst on guard. Seal damage buffs stack from both hands, so dual wielding multiple charms works great. Keep in mind only one of them needs to be upgraded for damage scaling.

[MisterRed]

Escrito originalmente por Amereth:

Escrito originalmente por Nerevar:

there is a un little side fact that makes your claim wrong. firespells dont do more dmg than lighting spear. unless you spamcast flame grant me strength which isnt worth doing given its super short duration. plus extra slot needed.

for pve : most enemies will IGNORE the spear projectile. even npc invaders. theyll walk right into it. that is a UNIQUE trait. alot of enemies will dodge fireballs and other projectiles tough. plus the projectile speed of the spear is WAY faster than that of the flame spell. that is important on a fast and aggresive enemy. a good test subject for this is the black knife assasins.

one important thing for the tc i forgot about :

get the lighting shroued cystal tear and the faith knot for your flask. this REALLY helps dmg on bosses. its a flat 20% buff. works for any elment you need it for with the right tear. its dropped by the erdtree avatar near frenzy flame village. easy kill with lighting spear from horseback. just keep your distance and dodge the golden projectile spam. the faith knot is easy to get but its only good till about 60 faith. then replace it with something else.

flame grant me strength is an excellent point and i do need it to outperform lightning spells.

didn't notice the behaviour with lightning spear, to be fair i backstab a lot of things so i don't spend a lot of time shooting lightnings. Always fun to learn something new.

Heres a new question, Lightning Scorpion Charm has been recommended as one of my talisman slots, but what about the fire charm? Specifically, for when I get faith scaling fire from Redmane, plus black fire. Does black fire get effected by the charm, and do weapon scalings? If neither, I probably won't need that charm given how badly it hurts damage negation, but if it does, its definitely something to be considered

[UnholyDentist]

Escrito originalmente por MisterRed:

Escrito originalmente por Amereth:

flame grant me strength is an excellent point and i do need it to outperform lightning spells.

didn't notice the behaviour with lightning spear, to be fair i backstab a lot of things so i don't spend a lot of time shooting lightnings. Always fun to learn something new.

Heres a new question, Lightning Scorpion Charm has been recommended as one of my talisman slots, but what about the fire charm? Specifically, for when I get faith scaling fire from Redmane, plus black fire. Does black fire get effected by the charm, and do weapon scalings? If neither, I probably won't need that charm given how badly it hurts damage negation, but if it does, its definitely something to be considered

It will improve black fire spell direct damage and weapon AP as long as the weapon deals fire damage.

[MisterRed]

Escrito originalmente por UnholyDentist:

Escrito originalmente por MisterRed:

Heres a new question, Lightning Scorpion Charm has been recommended as one of my talisman slots, but what about the fire charm? Specifically, for when I get faith scaling fire from Redmane, plus black fire. Does black fire get effected by the charm, and do weapon scalings? If neither, I probably won't need that charm given how badly it hurts damage negation, but if it does, its definitely something to be considered

It will improve black fire spell direct damage and weapon AP as long as the weapon deals fire damage.

I'm guessing you specify direct damage, as in it won't increase tick damage? If so, thats still really good, since so far Black Flame is my biggest hitter

[UnholyDentist]

Escrito originalmente por MisterRed:

Escrito originalmente por UnholyDentist:

It will improve black fire spell direct damage and weapon AP as long as the weapon deals fire damage.

I'm guessing you specify direct damage, as in it won't increase tick damage? If so, thats still really good, since so far Black Flame is my biggest hitter

i'm not sure about the DOT effect, it's too small number and seems to vary. It might be a % based deduction. If so, then the fire scorpion talisman may not have an effect on it.

[Cooperal]

FTH seems best for augmenting weapons, buffing defences, healing statuses and having some ranged just for utility of it. It certainly shines in a cooperative environment where you can multiply the efficiency of certain incantations that heal or buff. And while incantations can hit hard a lot of them are difficult to cast as the bosses main target.

I think the most interesting way to use faith is as an off-stat for a strength main with claw mark seal equipped.

[Felis]

Highly recommend trying the winged scythe out. It's got bleed, faith scaling, and it's pretty dope all around. But yeah, faith is mainly a buffing and support set of spells - don't expect it to be your main tool to fight, but start looking at weapons with innate faith scaling. I haven't gotten to try a lot of them but winged Scythe has been doing me wonders, and if you don't want to invest in STR and DEX, the cipher pata looks pretty dope, two hand it to dual wield them.

But seriously. Winged Scythe. 16 STR(just two hand it to save some levels) 16 DEX and 24 FTH.

[Bagg Boy (formerly Smoke)]

Four words: Dragon Communion, Dragon Cult

[MisterRed]

Escrito originalmente por Felis:

Highly recommend trying the winged scythe out. It's got bleed, faith scaling, and it's pretty dope all around. But yeah, faith is mainly a buffing and support set of spells - don't expect it to be your main tool to fight, but start looking at weapons with innate faith scaling. I haven't gotten to try a lot of them but winged Scythe has been doing me wonders, and if you don't want to invest in STR and DEX, the cipher pata looks pretty dope, two hand it to dual wield them.

But seriously. Winged Scythe. 16 STR(just two hand it to save some levels) 16 DEX and 24 FTH.

Definitely! I already have it, am working on the Dex, and I plan for it to be one of my two backup weapons, the other being the coded sword. My main weapon I'll be looking for something I can infuse with faith scaling fire, since unlike holy, no bosses heal from fire I believe (Talking about the Elden Beast here)

[UnholyDentist]

Escrito originalmente por Felis:

Highly recommend trying the winged scythe out. It's got bleed, faith scaling, and it's pretty dope all around. But yeah, faith is mainly a buffing and support set of spells - don't expect it to be your main tool to fight, but start looking at weapons with innate faith scaling. I haven't gotten to try a lot of them but winged Scythe has been doing me wonders, and if you don't want to invest in STR and DEX, the cipher pata looks pretty dope, two hand it to dual wield them.

But seriously. Winged Scythe. 16 STR(just two hand it to save some levels) 16 DEX and 24 FTH.

+1, Coded sword is pretty good too, Sword of Night and Flame, and later Blasphemous Blade.

[UnholyDentist]

Escrito originalmente por MisterRed:

Escrito originalmente por Felis:

Highly recommend trying the winged scythe out. It's got bleed, faith scaling, and it's pretty dope all around. But yeah, faith is mainly a buffing and support set of spells - don't expect it to be your main tool to fight, but start looking at weapons with innate faith scaling. I haven't gotten to try a lot of them but winged Scythe has been doing me wonders, and if you don't want to invest in STR and DEX, the cipher pata looks pretty dope, two hand it to dual wield them.

But seriously. Winged Scythe. 16 STR(just two hand it to save some levels) 16 DEX and 24 FTH.

Definitely! I already have it, am working on the Dex, and I plan for it to be one of my two backup weapons, the other being the coded sword. My main weapon I'll be looking for something I can infuse with faith scaling fire, since unlike holy, no bosses heal from fire I believe (Talking about the Elden Beast here)

Blasphemous Blade is probably your best option then.

[Kan]

They're alright, better as a split build imo.
However, there are a few gem spells like frame of frenzy, black flame and lightning spear (with gravel stone seal).

[UnholyDentist]

Escrito originalmente por Shinobi Ougi:

They're alright, better as a split build imo.
However, there are a few gem spells like frame of frenzy, black flame and lightning spear (with gravel stone seal).

I like Frenzied Burst too, for it's incredibly long range, my to go spell to snipe out enemies or to pull them safely.

[MisterRed]

Escrito originalmente por UnholyDentist:

Escrito originalmente por Shinobi Ougi:

They're alright, better as a split build imo.
However, there are a few gem spells like frame of frenzy, black flame and lightning spear (with gravel stone seal).

I like Frenzied Burst too, for it's incredibly long range, my to go spell to snipe out enemies or to pull them safely.

This post has reminded me I need to go back to the Eye of Sauron and Townsville. I forgot to pick up howl of hurting yourself in your confusion, and eye laser sniper. So thank you, tarnished warrior