Claymore vs Zweihander vs (Guts) Greatsword

[[G.W.] Sunbro Greg]

Hello, everyone, thanks for taking a moment to read my question.

I've finished the game, doing some PVP and PVE with friends mostly. I decided to not wait for the consensus on the pvp-meta-level to appear, so I kept on leveling, and at the moment hit the mark of 350+ rl. Having a real blast, never knew that leveling up past the meta requirement could be so much fun.

That being said, even on the levels that high, there is a lot of PVP, as I'm not the only one like this =)

I'm a full quality build with 99/99 STR / DEX, and as I absolutely hate magic and status effects and primarily play with straightswords / greatswords / colossal swords and colossal weapons, I wanted to ask you people for advice on the three candidates for my future escapades.

1) Claymore. I very much like Claymore, as it brings me way back into older souls-games, as well as it has an amazing (I think the best one) movesets in the game. I especially like the R2 poke with crouch/roll poke, alongside with wide sweeps of 1h R1. It's versatile, and relatively fast. I paired it with Quickstep and so far it's been awesome!

2) Zweihander. POWER UP THE BASS CANNON. Just like Claymore, this chunk of metal brings me back, too. I very much love its length and its moveset, as well. It is also comprised with R2, crouch and roll pokes, alongside with wide, sweeping R1s. Slapped Great Hunt on this bad boy, to see them people fly. The only few things I'm concerned about are its slow speed and the general idea that FROM seems to have, that if the weapon has lower stat requirements, then it has to be worse than all other weapons in its weapon class group. At this level, I not longer care about stat reqs or weight. The redeeming quality of this blade is its amazing moveset with pokes, and its length.

3) Never watched anime, but every one calls it Guts greatsword. A bit of googling helped me acquaint myself with the concept. Looks cool! So, this weapon is the one that hits hardest of all the three. It also kinda has a poke (crouch and roll), which is, ironically, quite easy to use and pops out really fast, it also has wide sweeping strikes. Add Lion's Claw AoW, and this thing becomes the apex weapon for killing stuff. What I'm not sure about, is does it swing as fast as Zwei, and what about its length? I legit took a ruler, and on my screen it appears longer than Zwei, yet people claim that Zwei is one of the longest weapons in the game. The other thing is the lack of a designated R2 poke. I still dunno... is having a crouch poke better than having crouch poke and R2 poke in PVP? Crouch poke seems to pop a bit faster.

So, once again, for my current build (99 str 99 dex, no magic, no status, weight unimportant) in the end-game, which one of the three weapons would be a better bet?

Thank you for your answers in advance.

[[G.W.] Sunbro Greg]

Escrito originalmente por Kenopsia:

Have you considered using them all and making your own decision?

Boy, have I not? I've been doing that for the last several days, hence why I wrote this.
Each test I made hasn't progressed me much, so I was hoping that the community may have noticed something I haven't.

[Get Donked On]

crouch and then poke is gud with guts sword rest of the move set is kinda bad altho with barbaric roar guts sword becomes kinda interesting but lions claw is probably still better to put on it for pvp

[mudofNYnumber1]

Note the crouch poke range (on Greatsword UGS) is deceiving. So many times (in PvE at least) the end of my sword is clipping through the enemy frame, yet they take no damage.

[[G.W.] Sunbro Greg]

Escrito originalmente por mudofNYnumber1:

Note the crouch poke range (on Greatsword UGS) is deceiving. So many times (in PvE at least) the end of my sword is clipping through the enemy frame, yet they take no damage.

Interesting. See, this is why I'm so unsure about which blade is longer, Zwei or UGS, since in PVP, the length does play a pretty important role, imo.

[Ponyeater]

Claymore always had the coolest moveset and design of the twohanded swords, while not being as powerful as the others (but neglegible difference).
The best one in terms of damage seems to be the Lordsworn Twohanded Sword.
You get it early on, it looks cool, it has very good scaling with any element you give it. Easily 10/10.
The only thing I can hold against it is that since I have it I no longer really ever get happy about item drops because,... well I got my sword. :/

[[G.W.] Sunbro Greg]

Escrito originalmente por Get Donked On:

crouch and then poke is gud with guts sword rest of the move set is kinda bad altho with barbaric roar guts sword becomes kinda interesting but lions claw is probably still better to put on it for pvp

True. Lion's Claw is an awesome tool for both sudden gap closers and roll catchers. If you time it right, you can even get them bloodhound stepping rivers of blood guys.

[Combine54]

All 3 armaments are fit for 3 different purposes in current patch:
Claymore is a greatsword, a middle ground between speed of a straight sword and stagger of colossal sword.
Greatsword is str colossal sword.
Zwei is dex colossal sword (however hilarious that sounds - which is a shame, considering that it always been str armament).

In your case, fashion aside, I'd stick with Claymore and Greatsword - Zwei has lower base damage, making it useless for 99-99 build.

[Homeless.]

Escrito originalmente por G.W. Sunbro Greg:

Escrito originalmente por Homeless.:

Using both GS and Claymore, have no use for Zwei

Why not zwei, in your opinion? Is it shorter than UGS and has worse moveset?

GS does better dmg, better reach, looks better, only good thing about zwei is the poke, but i have that on claymore so i dont see the point

[LongParsnip]

At your level greatsword is probably the best option and the only reason I am saying this is because of the damage output.

I am a Zweihander main but I generally PvP between RL30 to 150, (with 105 poise).
I wouldn't even consider the claymore, it is too short and deals less stance/poise damage.... I have never been beaten by a claymore user because I can always out reach them.

Some reasons why you might want to consider the Zweihander over the other two:
*2handed attacks can't be parried (except rolls and running attacks).
*RT thrust attack is very good for baiting and roll catching.
*RT upward cut is very good for catching the RT thrust bait.
*Crouch pokes almost always stun and have a lot of reach.
*Guts greatsword has useless RT attack, you're basically forfeiting 2 moves for a little extra damage.
*Zweihander is very light for its weapon class.
*Guts greatsword is large and obstructs your vision.
*Guts greatsword, because of its size telegraphs your attacks very clearly.

Now I am not 100% sure about this but I feel like Zweihander has slightly more reach with the crouch/roll poke than Guts Greatsword even though they should be the same length.

[trembo]

Claymore the moveset and speed is a part of me after using it in so many Souls games. I like the new running R2 attack, but really hate that you don;t have the upward slash combo after an R2 anymore - it's just stab stab.

[HixBozo]

Both of these weapons are incredibly useful in PVE because of their horizontal sweep as opposed to vertical moveset. Horizontal weapons are highly useful. The Zwei has almost 360 degree sweep.
When it comes to PVP what you need with this type of weapons in addition to their horizontal sweep it the thrust attack roll/escape catch. It can be chained. The Zwei has that attack when done with a roll attack.

[[G.W.] Sunbro Greg]

Escrito originalmente por LongParsnip:

At your level greatsword is probably the best option and the only reason I am saying this is because of the damage output.

I am a Zweihander main but I generally PvP between RL30 to 150, (with 105 poise).
I wouldn't even consider the claymore, it is too short and deals less stance/poise damage.... I have never been beaten by a claymore user because I can always out reach them.

Some reasons why you might want to consider the Zweihander over the other two:
*2handed attacks can't be parried (except rolls and running attacks).
*RT thrust attack is very good for baiting and roll catching.
*RT upward cut is very good for catching the RT thrust bait.
*Crouch pokes almost always stun and have a lot of reach.
*Guts greatsword has useless RT attack, you're basically forfeiting 2 moves for a little extra damage.
*Zweihander is very light for its weapon class.
*Guts greatsword is large and obstructs your vision.
*Guts greatsword, because of its size telegraphs your attacks very clearly.

Now I am not 100% sure about this but I feel like Zweihander has slightly more reach with the crouch/roll poke than Guts Greatsword even though they should be the same length.

After yet another day of testing, I must admit that I moved away from UGS.
Claymore wins because of its speed, but aye, more often than not it is simply outclassed by longer weapons.
So far, I think I'll go for Zwei. It's long, it has quite powerful strikes (albeit not as powerful as UGS), has a pretty nice moveset for baiting and catching (Alas, the 2nd RT almost never hits for me, even if they catch the bait), and it doesn't look so... attention-catching as UGS. People may sometimes just miss the movement of the blade in PVP.

Thanks a lot!

[Get Donked On]

For pvp i mostly see dual bleed spears atmso the extra reach on your blade will probably only factor in for rivers of i wanna be parried users

[[G.W.] Sunbro Greg]

Escrito originalmente por Get Donked On:

For pvp i mostly see dual bleed spears atmso the extra reach on your blade will probably only factor in for rivers of i wanna be parried users

Been playing specifically to learn to parry those guys. After 2 hours of duels, I parried only once. In PVE, I can parry almost everything, but with PVP, I dunno, I think because of the lag, I just never land a parry even on the slowest attack with a weapon that can be parried.

Shame. I was pretty good at parrying in DS3.

[Get Donked On]

Escrito originalmente por G.W. Sunbro Greg:

Escrito originalmente por Get Donked On:

For pvp i mostly see dual bleed spears atmso the extra reach on your blade will probably only factor in for rivers of i wanna be parried users

Been playing specifically to learn to parry those guys. After 2 hours of duels, I parried only once. In PVE, I can parry almost everything, but with PVP, I dunno, I think because of the lag, I just never land a parry even on the slowest attack with a weapon that can be parried.

Shame. I was pretty good at parrying in DS3.

good chance for lag with the world except Japan as one region from what im told so you could be fighting Aussies/kiwis whilst in Europe