Why is the PvP all thrust and poise?

[Drumadin]

Idk about everyone else but I'm honestly sick of this poise and thrust meta. If you see a colossal weapon it's a sword that only thrust, you mostly see godskin stitcher, halberds of naginata.

You also see these poise beasts running around that poises throug everything because it's so easy to work around the equipt load you see mages run around in bullhorn armor and still get to stat properly into int to deal decent damage.

Maybe tune it a bit down? Allow other weapons to have more of a place? Concidering thrusting has no recovery time, extreme damage and is the only reliable source of poise break?

All greatswords kinda sucks unless you use storm stomp for a true combo and other colossal weapons are so flawed to the core they are often as laughable as the bouqet of roses.

Here is an example: If I use the two handed attack with a collossal axe the swing is diagonal, which means of my target (both pvp and pve) stands more to my right and is slightly lower or does something that makes them duck I miss the attack entirely because I didn't pixel perfect connect with them.

However with thrusting I can for some reason miss them entirely but since they made contact with the side of the weapon they still take full damage rewarding me for missing my thrust.

If we don't tune it down could we get some consistency atleast? That all weapons gets weird hitboxes to be able to connect more attacks if thrusting weapons have them?

[Drumadin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Karhrandras:

IIRC there is only claymore and zweihander that can thrust. For PVE this is very useful. I find it sad that there arent more weapons with this moveset.

Also, I should have been more specific. I meant Colossal Swords.

Zweihander is a colossal sword. It shares the moveset and has always been in that category which was ultragreatswords.

Claymore is the one and only greatsword in the game that has a thrust attack.

[Drumadin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af PK_Thunder:

I take some of the blame here. I've been dumpstering people with the Bloody Helice and Godskin Stitcher since launch. I still maintain that pound for pound Helice is the best weapon in the game.

Godskin is better because you can choose whatever ash of war you want. Helice is a legendary state weapon meaning it's stuck with Dynast's Finesse.

[Butcher]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Macholad Jimmy Ravage:

Why do colossal swords designed to be slow hard hitting swords rapier fast thrusts? Why does it need an attack faster than some spears that is an actual thrust weapon?

Because colossal swords don't deal nearly as much damage as they should taking into account that they are abysmally slow with slow recovery and their range is the same or lesser than range of thrust attacks.

[PK_Thunder]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Macholad Jimmy Ravage:

Oprindeligt skrevet af PK_Thunder:

I take some of the blame here. I've been dumpstering people with the Bloody Helice and Godskin Stitcher since launch. I still maintain that pound for pound Helice is the best weapon in the game.

Godskin is better because you can choose whatever ash of war you want. Helice is a legendary state weapon meaning it's stuck with Dynast's Finesse.

Which is true, but Dynast's Finesse is a genuinely good move that flows into a counter thrust so, so well.

[Drumadin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af PK_Thunder:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Macholad Jimmy Ravage:

Godskin is better because you can choose whatever ash of war you want. Helice is a legendary state weapon meaning it's stuck with Dynast's Finesse.

Which is true, but Dynast's Finesse is a genuinely good move that flows into a counter thrust so, so well.

Yeah but it is also easy to avoid so it's just a flashy backstep dodge

[Drumadin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Butcher:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Macholad Jimmy Ravage:

Why do colossal swords designed to be slow hard hitting swords rapier fast thrusts? Why does it need an attack faster than some spears that is an actual thrust weapon?

Because colossal swords don't deal nearly as much damage as they should taking into account that they are abysmally slow with slow recovery and their range is the same or lesser than range of thrust attacks.

They deal as much damage as other colossal weapons, also their thrust has a longer range than you make it sound like and is just as fast as a rapier, so no. So any arguement about "recovery" has no meaning because everytime you see colossal sword you see thrust spam.

Your arguement is invalid

[Flori281]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Willow!:

Poise is the worst mechanic for pvp balance in the entire souls, but too many redditors complained at ds3 and From caved.
Not being able to strafe around thrusting weapons is a result of dysfunctional netcode and backstabs being effectively removed.

they hated him because he told the truth
passive poise is lame af and I didn't like it in dark souls 1(for PvP AND PvE)
Dark Souls 2 was some sort of weird middle ground between hyperarmor mechanics and passive poise, but we had stone ring then so it didn't end up mattering
Dark Souls 3 best system
and then we went way backward on Elden Ring. For some reason hyperarmor is weaker? but we have passive poise too however you essentially take more poise damage while swinging? just throw the whole thing out and take us back to Ds3. then we can balance other stuff to match

[tewi]

It's the worst PvP in all of FromSoft history rly. Not even fun even when winning, just two people seeing who 1 or 2-shots the other first.

[Drumadin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af tewi:

It's the worst PvP in all of FromSoft history rly. Not even fun even when winning, just two people seeing who 1 or 2-shots the other first.

I've run alot of fight clubs and I have seen some really fun meme builds that is off meta and yet effective. Problem is that the ammount of sweat goblins and grease gremlins desperatly clutching the meta it's all overshadowed.

Even alot people who use lesser effective weapons usually switch to a halberd or godskin stitcher if their health is running low.

[desecratedpetals]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Macholad Jimmy Ravage:

Oprindeligt skrevet af tewi:

It's the worst PvP in all of FromSoft history rly. Not even fun even when winning, just two people seeing who 1 or 2-shots the other first.

I've run alot of fight clubs and I have seen some really fun meme builds that is off meta and yet effective. Problem is that the ammount of sweat goblins and grease gremlins desperatly clutching the meta it's all overshadowed.

Even alot people who use lesser effective weapons usually switch to a halberd or godskin stitcher if their health is running low.

All of the souls games had their share of broken builds, the thing in ER is that the damage output is insane across the board, so even fighting someone using an interesting or unoptimal setup still results in a 30 sec fight.

[Drumadin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Willow!:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Macholad Jimmy Ravage:

I've run alot of fight clubs and I have seen some really fun meme builds that is off meta and yet effective. Problem is that the ammount of sweat goblins and grease gremlins desperatly clutching the meta it's all overshadowed.

Even alot people who use lesser effective weapons usually switch to a halberd or godskin stitcher if their health is running low.

All of the souls games had their share of broken builds, the thing in ER is that the damage output is insane across the board, so even fighting someone using an interesting or unoptimal setup still results in a 30 sec fight.

That is true, but atleast with less optimized builds you can actually do more about it. Instead of having these sweat goblins run attack you constantly and attack so fast you know you can never retaliate or recover too fast for you to punish.

[Butcher]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Macholad Jimmy Ravage:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Butcher:

Because colossal swords don't deal nearly as much damage as they should taking into account that they are abysmally slow with slow recovery and their range is the same or lesser than range of thrust attacks.

They deal as much damage as other colossal weapons, also their thrust has a longer range than you make it sound like and is just as fast as a rapier, so no. So any arguement about "recovery" has no meaning because everytime you see colossal sword you see thrust spam.

Your arguement is invalid

You replied to a guy who said:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Karhrandras:

Greatsword and Colossal without a pierce attack are absolute garbage tier for both pvp and pve

Naturally, I assume that you are trying to say: "no, weapon without pierce attacks are actually okay". But all you did is saying once again thrust is good, which we all agree to.

[Drumadin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Butcher:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Macholad Jimmy Ravage:

They deal as much damage as other colossal weapons, also their thrust has a longer range than you make it sound like and is just as fast as a rapier, so no. So any arguement about "recovery" has no meaning because everytime you see colossal sword you see thrust spam.

Your arguement is invalid

You replied to a guy who said:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Karhrandras:

Greatsword and Colossal without a pierce attack are absolute garbage tier for both pvp and pve

Naturally, I assume that you are trying to say: "no, weapon without pierce attacks are actually okay". But all you did is saying once again thrust is good, which we all agree to.

It's too good. Fast, long ranged, high damage, poise break, no recovery to punish. Take greatswords as an example: They blow, never been worse in any Souls game than here, but claymore is the exception because it can thrust.

Colossal weapons? They all kinda suck except colossal swords because they have a rapier fast thrust with no recovery frames and full damage.

Which weapons do people switch too if they start losing a fight? Halberds, spears or Godskin stitcher. Why? Because thrust attacks are extremely overtuned and they know it.