Why is the PvP all thrust and poise?

[Drumadin]

Idk about everyone else but I'm honestly sick of this poise and thrust meta. If you see a colossal weapon it's a sword that only thrust, you mostly see godskin stitcher, halberds of naginata.

You also see these poise beasts running around that poises throug everything because it's so easy to work around the equipt load you see mages run around in bullhorn armor and still get to stat properly into int to deal decent damage.

Maybe tune it a bit down? Allow other weapons to have more of a place? Concidering thrusting has no recovery time, extreme damage and is the only reliable source of poise break?

All greatswords kinda sucks unless you use storm stomp for a true combo and other colossal weapons are so flawed to the core they are often as laughable as the bouqet of roses.

Here is an example: If I use the two handed attack with a collossal axe the swing is diagonal, which means of my target (both pvp and pve) stands more to my right and is slightly lower or does something that makes them duck I miss the attack entirely because I didn't pixel perfect connect with them.

However with thrusting I can for some reason miss them entirely but since they made contact with the side of the weapon they still take full damage rewarding me for missing my thrust.

If we don't tune it down could we get some consistency atleast? That all weapons gets weird hitboxes to be able to connect more attacks if thrusting weapons have them?

[Remi]

The fast thrusts stunlock players trying to spam attack in return, so unless they roll out of the consecutive thrusts (or even Katana R1) they will get staggerlocked. The tracking on some running attacks is absurd too, just lock on and attack.

[Drumadin]

Argonaut の投稿を引用：

Macholad Jimmy Ravage の投稿を引用：

I use a variety of different weapons, that includes trusting weapons. Some of the issues I mentioned with hitboxes applies for both sides.

I have missed people hardcore but because they made contact with me or maybe the shaft of my spear they still take damage. It is not a case of "O'woe is me, why me". It is weird interractions all around.

Again, you are probably just laggy. Go hit an npc invader with the weapons.

Willow! の投稿を引用：

Poise is the worst mechanic for pvp balance in the entire souls, but too many redditors complained at ds3 and From caved.
Not being able to strafe around thrusting weapons is a result of dysfunctional netcode and backstabs being effectively removed.

You 100% complained about backstab fishing in ds1-3. You will never be happy.

NPC's cannot be compared to players. They don't ever mimic the same movements actual players do. They roll to the side, roll away, tank the hit or perfect parry if they are programmed for it.

[Drumadin]

Maybe From Software knew what they were doing. Maybe the Godskin stitcher is a weapon designed for Game Journalists, a weapon so failsafe event the worst of the worst players can preform well :)

[Drumadin]

< blank > の投稿を引用：

Macholad Jimmy Ravage の投稿を引用：

It is basic concepts, but idk if that should apply that much when godskin stitcher deals as much damage as axe of godfrey.

One big toothpick causing as much harm as a sharp slab or steel being brought down on someone but the toothpick has the speed and is unpunishable kinda makes you wonder wtf is going on

i think some of it is just down to poor balance, even if certain weapons weren't busted people would want poise to trade favorably and to thrust for quick reach damage and staggerlocks

Which is why some thrusting attacks should be more punishable or tuned down.

[Argonaut]

Macholad Jimmy Ravage の投稿を引用：

< blank > の投稿を引用：

trading and reach are pretty basic concepts

It is basic concepts, but idk if that should apply that much when godskin stitcher deals as much damage as axe of godfrey.

One big toothpick causing as much harm as a sharp slab or steel being brought down on someone but the toothpick has the speed and is unpunishable kinda makes you wonder wtf is going on

Claymore does the same exact damage, you just don't understand how to stack damage buffs and apparently don't know what royal knights resolve is a thing.

[Drumadin]

Argonaut の投稿を引用：

Macholad Jimmy Ravage の投稿を引用：

It is basic concepts, but idk if that should apply that much when godskin stitcher deals as much damage as axe of godfrey.

One big toothpick causing as much harm as a sharp slab or steel being brought down on someone but the toothpick has the speed and is unpunishable kinda makes you wonder wtf is going on

Claymore does the same exact damage, you just don't understand how to stack damage buffs and apparently don't know what royal knights resolve is a thing.

Claymore is the only greatsword that is good because it has thrust attacks. You see legendary greatswords being used but they are mostly trash aswell except for their skill, but alot of skills looks cool but is not that good.

How often do you see Lordsworn greatsword, knight's greatsword, Garboyle's greatsword, flamberge or banished knight greatsword? They cannot thrust so they are inferior to claymore.

Oh and claymore is still slower than Godskin stitcher, and the highest damage output is from, and you guessed it; THRUST ATTACK :D

[retroboy53]

Colossal swords actually halve your poise and add a flat +30 when you swing them, so you end up with less poise than if you were just standing there. The crouch-poke is really the only reliable method of damage in PVP considering almost every other weapon in the game out-paces them in terms of speed and range.

[Drumadin]

retroboy53 の投稿を引用：

Colossal swords actually halve your poise and add a flat +30 when you swing them, so you end up with less poise than if you were just standing there. The crouch-poke is really the only reliable method of damage in PVP considering almost every other weapon in the game out-paces them in terms of speed and range.

If you have 80 poise you still end up with 70 poise.

[Argonaut]

Macholad Jimmy Ravage の投稿を引用：

Argonaut の投稿を引用：

Claymore does the same exact damage, you just don't understand how to stack damage buffs and apparently don't know what royal knights resolve is a thing.

Claymore is the only greatsword that is good because it has thrust attacks. You see legendary greatswords being used but they are mostly trash aswell except for their skill, but alot of skills looks cool but is not that good.

How often do you see Lordsworn greatsword, knight's greatsword, Garboyle's greatsword, flamberge or banished knight greatsword? They cannot thrust so they are inferior to claymore.

Oh and claymore is still slower than Godskin stitcher, and the highest damage output is from, and you guessed it; THRUST ATTACK :D

I personally use the banished knight greatsword over the claymore and I have double flamberges as well. You not knowing how to use a weapon doesn't make it bad.

[Drumadin]

Argonaut の投稿を引用：

Macholad Jimmy Ravage の投稿を引用：

Claymore is the only greatsword that is good because it has thrust attacks. You see legendary greatswords being used but they are mostly trash aswell except for their skill, but alot of skills looks cool but is not that good.

How often do you see Lordsworn greatsword, knight's greatsword, Garboyle's greatsword, flamberge or banished knight greatsword? They cannot thrust so they are inferior to claymore.

Oh and claymore is still slower than Godskin stitcher, and the highest damage output is from, and you guessed it; THRUST ATTACK :D

I personally use the banished knight greatsword over the claymore and I have double flamberges as well. You not knowing how to use a weapon doesn't make it bad.

I use the flamberge alot, and I know the claymore is the better choice by a mile because of the moveset difference.

[Argonaut]

Macholad Jimmy Ravage の投稿を引用：

Argonaut の投稿を引用：

I personally use the banished knight greatsword over the claymore and I have double flamberges as well. You not knowing how to use a weapon doesn't make it bad.

I use the flamberge alot, and I know the claymore is the better choice by a mile because of the moveset difference.

So even you use the weapons lmao. Whats your argument then?

[Drumadin]

Argonaut の投稿を引用：

Macholad Jimmy Ravage の投稿を引用：

I use the flamberge alot, and I know the claymore is the better choice by a mile because of the moveset difference.

So even you use the weapons lmao. Whats your argument then?

Yeah I use some of the thrusting weapons and I use some of the weapons overshadowed by them. Kinda why I make the arguement in the first place because I notice the difference is massive.

Using normal greatswords that is not claymore and without stormstomp I put in alot more work into everything I have to do with great thrusting swords, spears, halberds and other thrusting weapons.

Incase you noticed I don't mention great spears is because I have only used Sacred Spear of Mohgwyn so I cannot speak for the entire category, but that spear shares the same issue colossal axes has with the need for pixel perfect hits and awkward attacks making that hard. 2 attacks in Mohgwyn's case.

[impuretrash2878]

Yeah i've noticed that after the recent patch, large thrusting weapons suddenly became a LOT more prolific in duels. These people poise through everything my little melee focused mage can do and just kill her instantly. I had a pretty good win/loss ratio before. Not so much now.

[Drumadin]

Karhrandras の投稿を引用：

Greatsword and Colossal without a pierce attack are absolute garbage tier for both pvp and pve, which makes 90% of them garbage tier.

You forgot to change the first part with greatswords to claymore. Only one sword in the greatsword category has a thrust and that is claymore.

Colossal swords needing thrust? No, no they don't. But I'll let you make a point.

Why do colossal swords designed to be slow hard hitting swords rapier fast thrusts? Why does it need an attack faster than some spears that is an actual thrust weapon? Do you think colossal hammers and axes should have a rapier fast long reach attack aswell then?

Make the biggest and slowest weapons in the game as fast as Godskin stitcher?

[PK_Thunder]

I take some of the blame here. I've been dumpstering people with the Bloody Helice and Godskin Stitcher since launch. I still maintain that pound for pound Helice is the best weapon in the game.