I've finally realized why I don't like Malenia as a character

[Expired_Meme_Cheese]

There's nothing to respect about her. I know that sounds weird, considering that most of the major players in Fromsoft's Souls games aren't really supposed to be likable, but there was usually something that at least earned my respect. Astraea gave up everything to become a demon and help the people of the Valley of Defilement, King Allant set the demons upon the world in a roundabout way to rid the world of misery, Gwyn and his crew slew the ancient dragons, Prince Lothric went against his family's wishes and longed for what came after the fading of the First Flame. I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea.

Even character's that we're clearly meant to hate, like Owl or Godrick, earn some respect for at least getting where they are.

Malenia is written like Coldsteel the Hedgehog. As far a I'm aware, her lore is basically that she was born with scarlet rot, and she has never been bested in battle. There's nothing about earning her place, or making some sort of great sacrifice or decision, or even just accomplishing something of note. She's just good because she's good.

And I think that's part of why people like Radahn. While it's not much, we know about how he learned and became skilled with gravity magic. He earned his ability to use gravity magic, granting him a small amount of respect.

Malenia has earned nothing.

I could be wrong about that, the lore days are early for this game, so maybe something could come up that'll change my tune. But I'm doubtful.

Edit: After reading through the replies, I will fully admit that my reasoning is shallow, poorly supported, and not very well thought out, and there are replies that have done much better explaining than I have done.

I will not be changing my post, however, as I do not mind the discussion that comes from my poor opinion.

[Moth]

Kain eredeti hozzászólása:

Moth eredeti hozzászólása:

Damn
Godrick an incel

He also dressed as a woman to escape Chadhan.

Maidenless behavior all around

[jasonbarron]

Moth eredeti hozzászólása:

Mossa eredeti hozzászólása:

Hmmh, being crippled by scarlet rot from birth, fighting the disease her whole life, being blind, missing an arm, sounds to me she has been fighting her whole life, quite an achievement to never seen defeat in battle, even fought to a standstill against General Radahn at the height of his power (contested opinion), until she resorted to use Scarlet Rot and win the battle.

yes but no

She didn't fought to a standstill, she was losing and used the Rot -to- cause the standstill.

Again, a warrior's measure is also to be found in the capacity to admit defeat, rather than take an L Malenia decided to nuke an entire continent where there seemed to be plenty townships with civilians judging by the ruins and heaps of burnt corpses

I take it you've never had to fight for your life for real. When you're right up against it you use every tool in your toolbox.

[Kain]

jasonbarron eredeti hozzászólása:

Moth eredeti hozzászólása:

yes but no

She didn't fought to a standstill, she was losing and used the Rot -to- cause the standstill.

Again, a warrior's measure is also to be found in the capacity to admit defeat, rather than take an L Malenia decided to nuke an entire continent where there seemed to be plenty townships with civilians judging by the ruins and heaps of burnt corpses

I take it you've never had to fight for your life for real. When you're right up against it you use every tool in your toolbox.

I wouldn't nuke a whole continent full of innocent people, I've already been in life or death situations, sacrificing an innocent person to save my skin was never an option.

[jasonbarron]

Kain eredeti hozzászólása:

jasonbarron eredeti hozzászólása:

I take it you've never had to fight for your life for real. When you're right up against it you use every tool in your toolbox.

I wouldn't nuke a whole continent full of innocent people, I've already been in life or death situations, sacrificing an innocent person to save my skin was never an option.

People act like it's a rational decision she made, like she casually took a sip of tea and then said "You know what? Screw it."

Releasing the rot is more like going Hulk

[Kain]

jasonbarron eredeti hozzászólása:

Kain eredeti hozzászólása:

I wouldn't nuke a whole continent full of innocent people, I've already been in life or death situations, sacrificing an innocent person to save my skin was never an option.

People act like it's a rational decision she made, like she casually took a sip of tea and then said "You know what? Screw it."

Releasing the rot is more like going Hulk

That's the point, it was irrational and cowardly.

The Redmanes stayed behind, sacrificing themselves to stop the rot she unleashed in desperation.

[mpcgannon]

Moth eredeti hozzászólása:

Expired_Meme_Cheese eredeti hozzászólása:

There's nothing to respect about her. I know that sounds weird, considering that most of the major players in Fromsoft's Souls games aren't really supposed to be likable, but there was usually something that at least earned my respect. Astraea gave up everything to become a demon and help the people of the Valley of Defilement, King Allant set the demons upon the world in a roundabout way to rid the world of misery, Gwyn and his crew slew the ancient dragons, Prince Lothric went against his family's wishes and longed for what came after the fading of the First Flame. I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea.

Even character's that we're clearly meant to hate, like Owl or Godrick, earn some respect for at least getting where they are.

Malenia is written like Coldsteel the Hedgehog. As far a I'm aware, her lore is basically that she was born with scarlet rot, and she has never been bested in battle. There's nothing about earning her place, or making some sort of great sacrifice or decision, or even just accomplishing something of note. She's just good because she's good.

And I think that's part of why people like Radahn. While it's not much, we know about how he learned and became skilled with gravity magic. He earned his ability to use gravity magic, granting him a small amount of respect.

Malenia has earned nothing.

I could be wrong about that, the lore days are early for this game, so maybe something could come up that'll change my tune. But I'm doubtful.

Malenia's actions can all be traced to an undying love for her brother which attempted to cure their curses through the Haligtree.

She's a skilled swordswoman and a capable general no doubt, she does have reason to earn your respect afterall her charisma and dedication were enough to have the Cleanrot Knights still crusade at her side despite her mere presence being caustic to them.

What you -should- cite when not liking her is how she challenged General Radhan to a duel and when realizing she couldn't win she decided to condemn half the continent to a flesh-melting life-threatening mutagenic outer-god-born curse/disease that made Caelid (a place that judging by the name [Caelid = heaven/sky in latin] was likely beautiful) a living hell.

In Millicen't own words she "cast aside her pride to meet Radhan's measure" entirely disregarding her own knights and the very continent's health.

The Redmane Knights armor states that the Redmane have decided to stay in Caelid to try and burn away the rot before it expands outside of it's boundaries effectively condemning themselves to a slow, painful death all the while their proud General has been reduced to a barely-sane hound that roams the beach waiting for someone to mercy-kill them.

THAT is why Malenia is FAR from a positive character and should lose any form of respect whatsoever

Yo Moth! What's your YouTube lore channel?

[jasonbarron]

Kain eredeti hozzászólása:

jasonbarron eredeti hozzászólása:

People act like it's a rational decision she made, like she casually took a sip of tea and then said "You know what? Screw it."

Releasing the rot is more like going Hulk

That's the point, it was irrational and cowardly.

The Redmanes stayed behind, sacrificing themselves to stop the rot she unleashed in desperation.

And my point was anyone describing it as dishonorable or cowardly has no experience with being a moment from death at the hands of an adversary. You do what you gotta do to survive. I find Malenia's actions perfectly understandable given the circumstances.

[Climhazzard]

Did Malenia Rot Caelid on purpose though? I thought it was an involuntary thing that happens when she's pushed to the absolute limit?

Though I suppose if she's at all aware of what happens when she's pushed to the edge, then her pride or hubris would still be the cause of what happened there, because she was to arrogant to admit that she could lose or get pushed that far.

[Kain]

Climhazzard eredeti hozzászólása:

Did Malenia Rot Caelid on purpose though? I thought it was an involuntary thing that happens when she's pushed to the absolute limit?

Though I suppose if she's at all aware of what happens when she's pushed to the edge, then her pride or hubris would still be the cause of what happened there, because she was to arrogant to admit that she could lose or get pushed that far.

It's not clear, but Millicent implies she did it as a last measure to win the fight.

[Dirty Hippy]

jasonbarron eredeti hozzászólása:

Kain eredeti hozzászólása:

That's the point, it was irrational and cowardly.

The Redmanes stayed behind, sacrificing themselves to stop the rot she unleashed in desperation.

And my point was anyone describing it as dishonorable or cowardly has no experience with being a moment from death at the hands of an adversary. You do what you gotta do to survive. I find Malenia's actions perfectly understandable given the circumstances.

I'd agree if she didn't come to Radahn's territory looking for a fight. If you're out to do some killing, you lose the right to be upset if the tables get turned.

[Kain]

And I love how people criticize Radhan saying he was a warlord, man, EVERYONE was at war back then, he was simply one of the top dogs. He didn't even start the whole war, Marika did by spreading the runes so the Demi Gods could kill each other.

[The Sylvan Learning Center]

Most of the high tier souls fans think malenia is a good character. She has high enough skills to complete most missions, and what few flaws she has are overcome by the fact that she's extremely hot

[Sickerton]

jasonbarron eredeti hozzászólása:

Kain eredeti hozzászólása:

That's the point, it was irrational and cowardly.

The Redmanes stayed behind, sacrificing themselves to stop the rot she unleashed in desperation.

And my point was anyone describing it as dishonorable or cowardly has no experience with being a moment from death at the hands of an adversary. You do what you gotta do to survive. I find Malenia's actions perfectly understandable given the circumstances.

Radahn could have dropped the stars he was holding back onto Malenia after he realized that Malenia had just doomed him and his entire civilization to tie in a duel.
He never does. Even after it's clear that that Malenia has dealt a mortal wound to him by not caring the other way.
Even after his mind is whittled down to anamalistic instincts and he's nothing more than a wild hobbled dog. What little is left of his mind knows that he wanted to protect people from the stars, and and still dedicates enough energy and focus to do so until the moment he dies.

[Anthreris]

This thread feels like it contains a bunch of players that beat the game, so I hope its fine if I mention spoilers.

Everyone is giving Malenia a hard time with nuking all of Caelid with Scarlet Rot, without considering our own characters actions throughout the game. While I agree that Malenia shouldn't have released Scarlet Rot I implore you to remember what our Tarnished did to Leyndell. What will the full ramifications of that be, besides our ascendancy to Elden Lord?

Also I consider Malenia to be opposite of our Tarnished thematically as we are warriors who have been defeated many times versus an "undefeated" royal.

[Vinnolo]

"never been bested in battle"
Radahn kicked her ass and she had to use her god powers just to escape with her life and condemned entire caelid, not to mention she survived thanks to her knights since she couldnt even walk (and it didnt even killed radahn), there is nothing good or redeeming about her