fingerprint shield is genuinely going to make me quit this game

[löcher]

i've heard alot of people saying you can counter turtle builds utilizing this shield if you're good. that's true if your opponent is genuinely retarded but if they aren't there's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you can do to counter it besides also using it. I have a cipher pata upgraded specifically for the purpose of countering this specific build. that fact alone should tell you something is wrong, but even having that doesn't always work. most of the people using it know what this weapon is, and what it does, and it's easily dodged and can be punished. many of them will use erdtree protection for even more elemental resistance and only take 10 damage from pure magic. what are you actually supposed to do against that? if they're even halfway decent it's essentially uncounterable. if you try to proc status effects, they can just bloodhound step away. this is horrible and nothing about it is enjoyable to fight against.
i'm not complaining about 3v1s every invasion.
i'm not complaining about infinite madness stunlock.
i'm not complaining about moonveil.
i'm not complaining about rivers of blood.
you can beat all of those things if you just have enough skill and knowhow. (lag RNG can decide your fate sometimes with madness snipe spammers)
but I genuinely have no idea how to counter this, and i know i'm not a horrible player. i win about 60% of my invasions. i win against people when i'm outnumbered in many cases. if anyone has any information on how to counter people who are both A: using fingerprint shield and turtling and B: are actually halfway decent, then please enlighten me.

[löcher]

Publicado originalmente por kkmmnn:

Publicado originalmente por skull:

the joke is that it has 100 stability and kicking it would literally do nothing

So the answer is no…

Kick away homie

even if kicking works somehow i detailed in the original post that cipher pata's weapon art, which is both faster, and travels more distance doesn't work against people who recognize it. so that's not a great solution either.

[löcher]

Publicado originalmente por Vvv:

You have shotel and a halberd that go through shields...some ashes of war as well.

can i ask what the halberd is called
also all the shield breaking ashes of war are so predictable anyone with a brain is going to instantly dodge them

[Vvv]

Publicado originalmente por skull:

Publicado originalmente por Vvv:

You have shotel and a halberd that go through shields...some ashes of war as well.

can i ask what the halberd is called
also all the shield breaking ashes of war are so predictable anyone with a brain is going to instantly dodge them

It's the vulgar militia shotel. They drop it.

[Baka Mitai]

Git gud casul

[löcher]

Publicado originalmente por Vvv:

Publicado originalmente por skull:

can i ask what the halberd is called
also all the shield breaking ashes of war are so predictable anyone with a brain is going to instantly dodge them

It's the vulgar militia shotel. They drop it.

ok
thanks

[Na²-L]

Publicado originalmente por sand stenotritidae:

Publicado originalmente por Broso:

Go ahead and quit this mostly single player PvE game because it doesn't live up to your PvP expectations. You won't be missed.

your own rejection of a relatively large aspect of the game doesn't mean that it's fine if it's poorly implemented
it's a full priced game, it's reasonable to complain if it isn't polished

Well said.

[Wacky (LucentLogan)]

Everyone's "counter" to fingerprint shield boils down to just "use [x] thing bro."

You can't dissect PvP as rock, paper, scissors. There's more nuance to it than just use this setup and you'll automatically win (unless you're using fingerprint shield/spear then you pretty much counter everything).

Generally speaking, there's no counter to fingerprint shield. Infinite stability, high amount of block resistance, and ability to poke while blocking. Here's the reason why majority of "counters" that I've seen people argue, don't work.

These are not counters to fingerprint shield:

1. Kicking
Has long windup animation, no range, does not do good stamina damage against greatshields, useless against fingerprint because fingerprint has infinite stability.

2. Casting Spells
Can easily be pressured by a fingerprint user by playing aggressively. A good fingerprint shield user will stay in your face and provide no room for you to cast spells.

3. Rivers of Blood (Ash of War)
A fingerprint user can shield poke the first part of the RoB ash of war, where they will hit you for full damage, and only take chip damage in return. You might argue that it will still build up bleed but a fingerprint shield user's roll button is not disabled just because they are using a greatshield. A decent player will just roll the last attack that does bleed so that it does no damage, stall until the bleed meter falls, or eat a stanching boluse (cure for bleed).

4. Rotten Breath/Ekzyke's Decay
Both breaths can be blocked, taking extremely low damage, and can be cured with the preserving boluse (cure for scarlet rot). Due to the nature of the dragon breaths, there's no further pressure you can apply since they are fp and stamina drainers and you have to go through a recovery animation. Most of the time, when you're casting these breaths, you're also going to be too far away for further follow-ups. Meanwhile, if you're too close, you'll just get smacked out of the air by a decent player.

5. Weapons that Go Around Shields like Cipher Pata and Shotel
Any decent player will never get hit by the unblockable blade ash of war.. There's too long of a windup and it glows right before it lunges, making it largely telegraphed. These two particular weapons will have the same problem most weapons will have which is being easily outranged and out-traded in damage by shield pokes.

Now, I prefaced this with saying you can't dissect PvP as simple as rock, paper, scissors. That's true of my oversimplified list as well. At the end of the day, a lot of it comes down to the skill gap between two players. You will still be able to kill fingerprint shield users with these setups and counters.

The point of saying fingerprint shield is absolutely busted is that in the hands of a player who is decent at PvP, there is no counter play to it, and that's the problem with the fingerprint shield.

[THE IMPALER]

quit pvp any youll be fine its trash and always will be trash smh dont know why you people put so much time into a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ afterthought mode

[vaanomega]

i used to use the Fingerprint Shield in PvE with my strengh/dex build, and even here it's OP, for me, this shield was a Mistake, shields should have a hard cap on the Guard Stability (like 90 or smoething like that), i don't do much PvP, but i will try to not use it

[löcher]

Publicado originalmente por killa queen:

quit pvp any youll be fine its trash and always will be trash smh dont know why you people put so much time into a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ afterthought mode

it's such an afterthought that an entire tab of the character menu is named "Multiplayer"

[THE IMPALER]

Publicado originalmente por skull:

Publicado originalmente por killa queen:

quit pvp any youll be fine its trash and always will be trash smh dont know why you people put so much time into a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ afterthought mode

it's such an afterthought that an entire tab of the character menu is named "Multiplayer"

well theres a tab for quitting the game too you should go to that one if all you do is the same dusty ass jank pvp

[urabe mikoto]

Publicado originalmente por Wacky (LucentLogan):

Everyone's "counter" to fingerprint shield boils down to just "use [x] thing bro."

You can't dissect PvP as rock, paper, scissors. There's more nuance to it than just use this setup and you'll automatically win (unless you're using fingerprint shield/spear then you pretty much counter everything).

Generally speaking, there's no counter to fingerprint shield. Infinite stability, high amount of block resistance, and ability to poke while blocking. Here's the reason why majority of "counters" that I've seen people argue, don't work.

These are not counters to fingerprint shield:

1. Kicking
Has long windup animation, no range, does not do good stamina damage against greatshields, useless against fingerprint because fingerprint has infinite stability.

2. Casting Spells
Can easily be pressured by a fingerprint user by playing aggressively. A good fingerprint shield user will stay in your face and provide no room for you to cast spells.

3. Rivers of Blood (Ash of War)
A fingerprint user can shield poke the first part of the RoB ash of war, where they will hit you for full damage, and only take chip damage in return. You might argue that it will still build up bleed but a fingerprint shield user's roll button is not disabled just because they are using a greatshield. A decent player will just roll the last attack that does bleed so that it does no damage, stall until the bleed meter falls, or eat a stanching boluse (cure for bleed).

4. Rotten Breath/Ekzyke's Decay
Both breaths can be blocked, taking extremely low damage, and can be cured with the preserving boluse (cure for scarlet rot). Due to the nature of the dragon breaths, there's no further pressure you can apply since they are fp and stamina drainers and you have to go through a recovery animation. Most of the time, when you're casting these breaths, you're also going to be too far away for further follow-ups. Meanwhile, if you're too close, you'll just get smacked out of the air by a decent player.

5. Weapons that Go Around Shields like Cipher Pata and Shotel
Any decent player will never get hit by the unblockable blade ash of war.. There's too long of a windup and it glows right before it lunges, making it largely telegraphed. These two particular weapons will have the same problem most weapons will have which is being easily outranged and out-traded in damage by shield pokes.

Now, I prefaced this with saying you can't dissect PvP as simple as rock, paper, scissors. That's true of my oversimplified list as well. At the end of the day, a lot of it comes down to the skill gap between two players. You will still be able to kill fingerprint shield users with these setups and counters.

The point of saying fingerprint shield is absolutely busted is that in the hands of a player who is decent at PvP, there is no counter play to it, and that's the problem with the fingerprint shield.

Finally some decent points

[SmallGespenst]

Isn't there a Shotel with Instant death? basically an item that exist to murder turtlers? do damage past shields and build up Death Blight.

[Wacky (LucentLogan)]

Publicado originalmente por SmallGespenst:

Isn't there a Shotel with Instant death? basically an item that exist to murder turtlers? do damage past shields and build up Death Blight.

I watched a stream of Oroboro with a build using two Eclipse Shotels, the deathblight shotel you're talking about, and in every invasion, the host died before deathblight could proc.

He's using a build specifically built around inflicting deathblight with the Eclipse Shotel and yet the buildup is so low that people die before it can proc. Deathblight isn't broken anymore and it's actually kind of bad now, it seems.

[SmallGespenst]

Publicado originalmente por Wacky (LucentLogan):

Publicado originalmente por SmallGespenst:

Isn't there a Shotel with Instant death? basically an item that exist to murder turtlers? do damage past shields and build up Death Blight.

I watched a stream of Oroboro with a build using two Eclipse Shotels, the deathblight shotel you're talking about, and in every invasion, the host died before deathblight could proc.

He's using a build specifically built around inflicting deathblight with the Eclipse Shotel and yet the buildup is so low that people die before it can proc. Deathblight isn't broken anymore and it's actually kind of bad now, it seems.

That's a shame. it'd be fine if a typical build using the Eclipse Shotel wouldn't proc before killing if the host isn't healing, but if a specialised build can't do it then that's a problem. having a specialised counter-turtle weapon not work is a real shame.