Sorcery is hot garbage

[Arkardu]

Even a spell like Ranni's Dark Moon, only does like 2800'ish dmg with a 10+ Lusat Glintstone staff and 80 intelligence. That is just horrendous for a spell like that.

As I see it, I have only found 3 spells that are somewhat worth it lategame. The obvious one, is the Azur comet, with the combo setup, second is Adula's Moonblade and thirdly is just another combo like Azur comet, just with Meteorite of Astel instead. But we can go even further, with how bad intelligence is. The weapons suck as well. Moonveil is great, sure, but that about covers it. Moonblade does like no dmg and needs such big wind up, that you might as well just use Adula's Moonblade instead.

How do you guys feel about magic in the game?

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by SadPlatty©:

I ate glintstone and ♥♥♥♥ stars is how I feel about magic in this game.

Stars of Ruin was my go-to for a quick-ish damage dealer, rock sling was first but I gave it up for the extra accuracy. Azure is my Treefolk obliterater for the most part. Night Maiden's Mist was a favorite for Crowd Control, though Zariman's Ice Storm was also pretty cool :feste:

Though I disagree on Ranni's Dark Moon being garbage - OK, so just under 3k damage AND it debuff's their magic defenses for a bit after, AND it can eat up magic it touches (like Loretta's Arrows). Sure it isn't the "I win" button, but why do you need more if Azur is the end-all DMG stacker?

Also - the Meteor spells are pretty good too; I just feel like they are more reserved for boss fights than some random NPCs (the spread is ridiculous, however that doesn't stop it from working when you sneak behind the large enemy - think gargoyle outside of Beast Palace). They also do good Stance damage - I could stagger the gargoyle within 2 seconds if enough hit.

And weapon wise - there was not a lot of variety up front, but Bastard's Stars and Moonlight GreatSword didn't disappoint either (both could hit for more than 1k with a heavy, and the flail art was neat).

Granted I memed to 99INT, but it's honestly probably only 30 more damage per tick on spells/swings than you since we got hard-capped anyway.

Edit : And shout-out to Loretta's Mastery also - that has range as far as you can lock-on, AND could stack close to 2k damage if they all hit.

Mastery is great when shot from the edge of a cliff or underneath an airborne foe. Aside from that Greatbow is better simply cause of efficiency.

Also should add there is quite a bit of difference when maxing int vs not maxing int thanks to multipliers and S scaling. As a test try 40 int vs 99 int on spells and you'll get a fairly large damage difference.

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by Smokes:

Everyone keeps saying this, and yet ranged sorcery is pretty much the only thing carrying bosses right now at all. I have not seen one damn host not get themselves one shot out of stupidity or lack of prep in over 200 attemts to help now. It's a joke. =/ Every one of you fails every late game boss horribly, and that I can 100% confirm.

That's cause generally people that bring in cooperators aren't that great at the game. Where as those that are competent either play with friends or have already beaten them.

[Entelechia]

it's really good early game but it's just hell against some later spastic enemies (aka all of them especially black knife) and almost literally impossible against some with no summon options like the snowfield sanguine noble or alecto.

respecced to be more melee focused and beat them down hard. at least early sorcery build did help me get the equipment/aow to make lategame melee option a nice experience.

[Za'Muro]

"it deals only 3000"
aaand i stopped reading

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Originally posted by D. Flame:

No, it's a false equivalency.

To swap weapons, you'll like have to respec your stats. Which requires a special item that has a finite supply. You'll have to go out of your way to visit a special NPC to do it. Even if you already have the new weapon in question already, you will need to collect a ton of upgrade materials, which are also in limited supply until much later in the game. Then you will also have to spend a ton of runes for the actual upgrading. Etc.

To change sorceries, you just tap up on the D-Pad, done.

If you don't have it equipped, you just sit at a grace and swap it, period.

So no, they are not the same.

HAHAHAHAHAHA respec stats? OMG have you played the game? If you are melee you can effectively use 90% of the weapons without respeccing or leveling since str/dex is your bread and butter. You'd only need to add maybe a few points in faith/int/arc to fit whatever weapon you wanted so you can equip it. Where as sorcery ya you'd have a tougher time since you'd need at least 30 faith and 60 int which 70 levels to use all your spells which is a steep cost since less than 1/8 of the weapons in the game are naturally int scaling and adding int scaling to a weapon limits it when using ashes on top of the dex/str requirements needed for the weapons themselves.

And to top it off you can easily get multiple weapons to 9/24 upgrades though it's like sorceries you gotta find them though you can get several bell bearings early cutting the first half of upgrading to infinite before mid/endgame.

My 1st character is a 40/40 quality character, and I would still have to respec to use half the weapons that I have found, Tree spear, for example, requires 18 Faith to use. Plus, I would still need to track down upgrade materials to upgrade it just to reasonably test it. Then if it doesn't work for me, I am out of luck for upgrading the next weapon that I want to try. It's only at end game do you get access to buying the materials for upgrades, and they get extremely expensive.

Meanwhile, on my sorcery character, I just sit at a grace and swap spells. I don't even have to change stats.

It is not the same. Deal with it.

[Sonnenbank]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICsKSDyHQAU

A nice sorcery vid against malenia highlighting it isn't OP or weak. Usable.

what this video mostly shows is that Bloodhound step is broken op.....
without BH step you would have died so early ;)

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by Andvari:

it's really good early game but it's just hell against some later spastic enemies (aka all of them especially black knife)

That's why you have things like Magic Glintblade or Phalanx. Those spells cast quickly and the AI will dodge the initial casting rather than the activation of the spell.

Cast Phalanx and swords appear above your head -> enemy dodges -> enemy gets close -> swords fire -> enemy eats the hit

Dodge an attack -> while enemy is stuck in an animation, walk side ways while spamming magic glint blade -> Enemy dodges/attacks -> avoid their attacks -> Glint blade activates and slaps them

Stop standing in their face and trying to spam slow casting spells and wondering why you are getting blown up.

If all that fails, you still have melee weapons like the Moonveil to fall back on.

[SadPlatty©]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Mastery is great when shot from the edge of a cliff or underneath an airborne foe. Aside from that Greatbow is better simply cause of efficiency.

Also should add there is quite a bit of difference when maxing int vs not maxing int thanks to multipliers and S scaling. As a test try 40 int vs 99 int on spells and you'll get a fairly large damage difference.

Yeah, the Greatbow is definitely better on FP use. I was just more using the Mastery as an example where the spell slaps and has good range (though greatbow DOES have better accuracy as well so I guess that is the give and take FP/Accuracy vs Power).

As for the INT scaling - I am aware of that - I meant more in-line with OP who has 80 INT. I figured it is a safe assumption that (unless you factor in Talismans); him with a Moonlight Greatsword/Ranni's Moon at 80 INT vs me with the same at 90 INT though is not exactly much (you usually only get a couple points of AR per level after hard-cap).

Otherwise, you would probably be more in the 600AR range on heavies with 40 INT (as it needs 38 to even wield) vs me in the 1k+ with 99.

Edit : Well, Dark Moon Greatsword - but let's not kid ourselves here, it's the Moonlight Greatsword lol

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Andvari:

it's really good early game but it's just hell against some later spastic enemies (aka all of them especially black knife) and almost literally impossible against some with no summon options like the snowfield sanguine noble or alecto.

respecced to be more melee focused and beat them down hard. at least early sorcery build did help me get the equipment/aow to make lategame melee option a nice experience.

Alecto and similar can be fought with Carian Greatsword and Adula's Moonblade spells :)

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

HAHAHAHAHAHA respec stats? OMG have you played the game? If you are melee you can effectively use 90% of the weapons without respeccing or leveling since str/dex is your bread and butter. You'd only need to add maybe a few points in faith/int/arc to fit whatever weapon you wanted so you can equip it. Where as sorcery ya you'd have a tougher time since you'd need at least 30 faith and 60 int which 70 levels to use all your spells which is a steep cost since less than 1/8 of the weapons in the game are naturally int scaling and adding int scaling to a weapon limits it when using ashes on top of the dex/str requirements needed for the weapons themselves.

And to top it off you can easily get multiple weapons to 9/24 upgrades though it's like sorceries you gotta find them though you can get several bell bearings early cutting the first half of upgrading to infinite before mid/endgame.

My 1st character is a 40/40 quality character, and I would still have to respec to use half the weapons that I have found, Tree spear, for example, requires 18 Faith to use. Plus, I would still need to track down upgrade materials to upgrade it just to reasonably test it. Then if it doesn't work for me, I am out of luck for upgrading the next weapon that I want to try. It's only at end game do you get access to buying the materials for upgrades, and they get extremely expensive.

Meanwhile, on my sorcery character, I just sit at a grace and swap spells. I don't even have to change stats.

One last note ashes of war are pretty much attribute agnostic so you're generic weapons have a wide variety of powers to choose from just like sorcery albeit not easily changeable in battle unless you fill your 6 slots.

It is not the same. Deal with it.

You really can't afford 8 levels to get faith and yet you can afford 50 levels of int? Not to mention only 60/251 melee weapons require int/faith. That's still almost 200 weapons that are dex/str with minimal alternate attribute investment. Upgrades aren't expensive at all especially since the last patch dropped the costs by 90% making them almost negligible. And finiding stones you can easily upgrade at least 4 generic weapons to 24 and easily upgrade at least 7-8 unique ones to 9 before bellbearings. After bell bearings you can upgrade any weapon you want.

And finding smithing stones is like trying to find sorceries both require you to search around for a bit if you can't buy them.

Also to note generic weapons have ashes of war that are attribute agnostic giving them a lot of variety in powers like sorcery albeit less straight up versatile while in battle since you can only have 6 at a time.

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

You really can't afford 8 levels to get faith and yet you can afford 50 levels of int?

LOL, if you are already running an INT build, then you'd have already pumped INT. All you would need to do is swap your spell. Your excuses are just getting worse and worse.

[Pvt_Booger]

People saying "Comet Azur will destroy every boss" haven't played the game till the end.

Try spamming Comet on Malenia (You can only spam when she does her rotten-flower move btw) Maliketh's 2nd Phase, or bosses like Alecto. You won't be able to get them because of their high mobility so you need tracking sorceries...

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by Pvt_Booger:

People saying "Comet Azur will destroy every boss" haven't played the game till the end.

Try spamming Comet on Malenia (You can only spam when she does her rotten-flower move btw) Maliketh's 2nd Phase, or bosses like Alecto. You won't be able to get them because of their high mobility so you need tracking sorceries...

You can use comet fairly well while using spirit ashes though you won't have the 15 seconds of infinite mana straight up. Better off using sword of night and flame for the faster lazer.

[PepedaHellScream]

Originally posted by At@At:

Originally posted by Týr'el:

Double greatswords (colossals) + royal knight resolve + boosted jump attack = 2500

After a bleed build (occult dual katanas),
I wished to try a sorcerer/spellblade, but it's so blant. I put it aside.

So switched to a bugs bunny strenght build. Early game is tough, but man this damage end game !

Wow getting 2 weapons to max upgrades + stating for double colossals + royal knight resolve + boosted jump attack only equals 2500? Might as well stick with the sorcery build mentioned by OP for that pitiful 2800 without using every buff. U have a better early and mid game. Late game u fall off a bit unless u spec out a bit. The complaint seems to be u can't just play exactly like early game in late game as a sorcerer and therefore sorceries aren't good... They actually have to deal with things that other builds have to, except they never specced correctly to deal with it and have a far steeper learning curve too. That or play a really boring way.

He wants to compare 1 sorcery vs a full combo set-up. Let's compare 2 full combos set-up:

Double greatswords (colossals) + royal knight resolve + boosted jump attack = 2500

vs

Terra Magica + Flask Magic-Shrouding Cracked Tear/Cerulean Hidden Tear + Comet Azur = Decimate everything in front of you before they can reach you.

I don't know what was his point lul.

[Entelechia]

Originally posted by vamirez:

Alecto and similar can be fought with Carian Greatsword and Adula's Moonblade spells :)

I'd love to see a pure int build mage with no melee option outside those two going up against Consecrated Snowfield's Sanguine Noble.

Alecto I can see since she does show a lot of opening despite all the acrobatics, but CS Sanguine noble invader? Yeah, a pure int build against that would make for an entertaining watch lol.