Sorcery is hot garbage

[Arkardu]

Even a spell like Ranni's Dark Moon, only does like 2800'ish dmg with a 10+ Lusat Glintstone staff and 80 intelligence. That is just horrendous for a spell like that.

As I see it, I have only found 3 spells that are somewhat worth it lategame. The obvious one, is the Azur comet, with the combo setup, second is Adula's Moonblade and thirdly is just another combo like Azur comet, just with Meteorite of Astel instead. But we can go even further, with how bad intelligence is. The weapons suck as well. Moonveil is great, sure, but that about covers it. Moonblade does like no dmg and needs such big wind up, that you might as well just use Adula's Moonblade instead.

How do you guys feel about magic in the game?

[Malarraenaepcaleac'h]

2800 with Rannis Dark Moon is an extreme amount.

[Keldrath]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Originally posted by Emmy:

This game easily favors intelligence in almost every way.
If you can't play around blasting ♥♥♥♥ with up to 70 different sorceries, idk man.

And even putting sorceries aside, every other weapon you pick up in this game is like "int requirement/scaling btw xd"

It feels bad to be anything but an all-rounder or caster, because your potential shiny new playthings in a game designed around wanderlust are few and far between.

Number of naturally scaling int weapons and faith
int/total faith
Daggers - 3/16 - 3
S.S. - 6/19 - 4
G.S. - 4/21 - 6
C.S. - 4/11 - 2
T.S. - 0/7 - 0
H.T.S. - 0/4 - 0
Curved S. - 1/15 - 2
C.G.S - 1/9 - 1
Katana - 2/8 - 0
T.S. - 0/6 - 1
Axes - 1/13 - 0
Greataxes - 0/11 - 1
Hammers - 1/15 - 2
Flails - 2/5 - 0
Greathammers - 0/14 - 4
Colossal Weapons - 1/15 - 3
Spears - 4/17 - 2
Greatspears - 0/6 - 3
Halberds - 1/16 - 2
Reapers - 0/4 - 2
Whips - 0/6 - 2
Fists - 0/9 - 2
Claws - 0/4 - 0

For a total of 31/251 int melee weapons. 42/251 faith weapons. All 251 are usable by str/dex. So less than 1/8 of the weapons scale by int. Less than 1/6 scale by faith.

So not even close to 50% of the weapons scale by int naturally. 100% scale by str/dex which means that yes melee builds can use moonveil quite easily.

You know they're just talking about special weapons. Bet they probably don't realize that basic weapons are also extremely viable too. Can play the whole game comfortably with a basic longsword. Some people just see the scaling stat and some cool artwork or skill and think that's the end all be all.

[Julymorning]

Originally posted by zero:

i mean, its obviously broken, but you have to consider the bang for your buck.

pebble and(currently) its variants are all strong beyond belief and carry every mage, comet is comet and ruins all bosses in seconds, and rock sling is high damage and poise break for very little cost.

but the more unique spells have questionable ability. ranni's moon is amazing though, makes people weak to magic, so starting with it into a combo is an easy victory

This. Comet alone destroys bosses

[The Tempted Man]

You can always use mods....

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Originally posted by D. Flame:

False equivalency.

Well if he's having a difficult time with colossal he'd probably have an easier time using a faster weapon no? It's the same thing if glintstone pebble isn't working against a target do you keep using glintstone pebble or do you try something different. So I'd say it's pretty much the same thing. Or are we saying it's ok for sorcery to need to do different things but not for others?

No, it's a false equivalency.

To swap weapons, you'll like have to respec your stats. Which requires a special item that has a finite supply. You'll have to go out of your way to visit a special NPC to do it. Even if you already have the new weapon in question already, you will need to collect a ton of upgrade materials, which are also in limited supply until much later in the game. Then you will also have to spend a ton of runes for the actual upgrading. Etc.

To change sorceries, you just tap up on the D-Pad, done.

If you don't have it equipped, you just sit at a grace and swap it, period.

So no, they are not the same.

[vamirez]

I thought magic is OP cheese?

I'm a confused sorcerer now...

I went thru the whole game and noticed that you need to explore really everything to get a good range of different spells. But pebble/ice pebble are still viable in Haligtree, so. The moon is nice for the debuff. The bow rocks as a sniping weapon. And so on...

[Zordiark Darkeater]

Originally posted by Keldrath:

Originally posted by Zordiark Darkeater:

All im seeing is sorcerers facerolling everything with almost 0 effort compared to my Heavy Melee colossal Sword build what are you smoking OP ?

Spamming jump+R2 really takes a lot of effort huh

I don't use jump attack never liked it :P i prefer to spam my weapon art its much cooler.

[Zordiark Darkeater]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Originally posted by Zordiark Darkeater:

All im seeing is sorcerers facerolling everything with almost 0 effort compared to my Heavy Melee colossal Sword build what are you smoking OP ?

Square block in round hole. If colossal isn't working have you though of using a different weapon like a sorcerer should?

i have no real issue with bosses. im just saying that caster are easymode you can literally circle run arround bosses from long range and just spam spells that hits harder then most colossal weapon twohanded lol

meanwhile as melee build you need to look out and dodge 6000 stuff constantly especialy when a boss decide to do a 80 hit combo move and half the time when you want to swing use weapon skills boss randomly decides to jump away from you and your swinging in the air.

Bosses are not hard as a melee but compared to casters you need to put in 10x more effort as melee on allot of bosses.

meanwhile casters just throwing rocks shooting lasers and stuff and all they need to do is dodge the very limited superpredictable long range super slow moves of bosses.

[D. Flame]

The problem with jump attacks is that it is all UGS users get to do in this game. In the previous games, you got to at least make use of most of their moveset. I didn't even get to make use of most of the Claymore's moveset, then I see Youtubers throwing more attacks safely and doing more damage per hit with an R1 on freaking Moonveil on an INT build that also has sword beams and can spam spells.

[Viper]

Damage is not everything. The ability to stand at range and fast cast spells is a major advantage over a melee guy who has to get up close and personal.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Viper:

Damage is not everything. The ability to stand at range and fast cast spells is a major advantage over a melee guy who has to get up close and personal.

As a caster I must say it is clearly bad game design that bosses can even hit me from that far away, requiring me to do vulgar stuff like... dodging... or yuk paying attention to what my victim is doing (=learning their moves). And how do they get to me so quickly? That I even have to carry a shield or put points in Vigor is a travesty. Also casting times are too long.

[R E B O R N]

i totally agree change to strength build you will feel the diffference!

[SadPlatty©]

I ate glintstone and ♥♥♥♥ stars is how I feel about magic in this game.

Stars of Ruin was my go-to for a quick-ish damage dealer, rock sling was first but I gave it up for the extra accuracy. Azure is my Treefolk obliterater for the most part. Night Maiden's Mist was a favorite for Crowd Control, though Zariman's Ice Storm was also pretty cool

Though I disagree on Ranni's Dark Moon being garbage - OK, so just under 3k damage AND it debuff's their magic defenses for a bit after, AND it can eat up magic it touches (like Loretta's Arrows). Sure it isn't the "I win" button, but why do you need more if Azur is the end-all DMG stacker?

Also - the Meteor spells are pretty good too; I just feel like they are more reserved for boss fights than some random NPCs (the spread is ridiculous, however that doesn't stop it from working when you sneak behind the large enemy - think gargoyle outside of Beast Palace). They also do good Stance damage - I could stagger the gargoyle within 2 seconds if enough hit.

And weapon wise - there was not a lot of variety up front, but Bastard's Stars and Moonlight GreatSword didn't disappoint either (both could hit for more than 1k with a heavy, and the flail art was neat).

Granted I memed to 99INT, but it's honestly probably only 30 more damage per tick on spells/swings than you since we got hard-capped anyway.

Edit : And shout-out to Loretta's Mastery also - that has range as far as you can lock-on, AND could stack close to 2k damage if they all hit.

[♔V3RD1CT]

Everyone keeps saying this, and yet ranged sorcery is pretty much the only thing carrying bosses right now at all. I have not seen one damn host not get themselves one shot out of stupidity or lack of prep in over 200 attemts to help now. It's a joke. =/ Every one of you fails every late game boss horribly, and that I can 100% confirm.

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Well if he's having a difficult time with colossal he'd probably have an easier time using a faster weapon no? It's the same thing if glintstone pebble isn't working against a target do you keep using glintstone pebble or do you try something different. So I'd say it's pretty much the same thing. Or are we saying it's ok for sorcery to need to do different things but not for others?

No, it's a false equivalency.

To swap weapons, you'll like have to respec your stats. Which requires a special item that has a finite supply. You'll have to go out of your way to visit a special NPC to do it. Even if you already have the new weapon in question already, you will need to collect a ton of upgrade materials, which are also in limited supply until much later in the game. Then you will also have to spend a ton of runes for the actual upgrading. Etc.

To change sorceries, you just tap up on the D-Pad, done.

If you don't have it equipped, you just sit at a grace and swap it, period.

So no, they are not the same.

HAHAHAHAHAHA respec stats? OMG have you played the game? If you are melee you can effectively use 90% of the weapons without respeccing or leveling since str/dex is your bread and butter. You'd only need to add maybe a few points in faith/int/arc to fit whatever weapon you wanted so you can equip it. Where as sorcery ya you'd have a tougher time since you'd need at least 30 faith and 60 int which 70 levels to use all your spells which is a steep cost since less than 1/8 of the weapons in the game are naturally int scaling and adding int scaling to a weapon limits it when using ashes on top of the dex/str requirements needed for the weapons themselves.

And to top it off you can easily get multiple weapons to 9/24 upgrades though it's like sorceries you gotta find them though you can get several bell bearings early cutting the first half of upgrading to infinite before mid/endgame.