Sorcery is hot garbage

[Arkardu]

Even a spell like Ranni's Dark Moon, only does like 2800'ish dmg with a 10+ Lusat Glintstone staff and 80 intelligence. That is just horrendous for a spell like that.

As I see it, I have only found 3 spells that are somewhat worth it lategame. The obvious one, is the Azur comet, with the combo setup, second is Adula's Moonblade and thirdly is just another combo like Azur comet, just with Meteorite of Astel instead. But we can go even further, with how bad intelligence is. The weapons suck as well. Moonveil is great, sure, but that about covers it. Moonblade does like no dmg and needs such big wind up, that you might as well just use Adula's Moonblade instead.

How do you guys feel about magic in the game?

[D. Flame]

Frozen Dervish lähetti viestin:

Zordiark Darkeater lähetti viestin:

All im seeing is sorcerers facerolling everything with almost 0 effort compared to my Heavy Melee colossal Sword build what are you smoking OP ?

Square block in round hole. If colossal isn't working have you though of using a different weapon like a sorcerer should?

False equivalency.

[Frozen Dervish]

D. Flame lähetti viestin:

Frozen Dervish lähetti viestin:

Square block in round hole. If colossal isn't working have you though of using a different weapon like a sorcerer should?

False equivalency.

Well if he's having a difficult time with colossal he'd probably have an easier time using a faster weapon no? It's the same thing if glintstone pebble isn't working against a target do you keep using glintstone pebble or do you try something different. So I'd say it's pretty much the same thing. Or are we saying it's ok for sorcery to need to do different things but not for others?

[Xengre]

Arkardu lähetti viestin:

Every pebble variant sucks major ass, once you reach late game. They legit do zero dmg.

User error apparently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW-1P42AfZ8
Suggests it does over 500 dmg with higher end builds (or even around 400 with lesser) and I'm pretty sure they're not using any talismans/alternative buffs or it will likely push closer to 700-1000 if you tried. For the low cost and fast cast speed this is is hardly "zero damage". Makes me question if you've been testing this stuff.

This one has several spells you didn't mention that are clearly very powerful late game...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSUkZtiycME

I can't test it myself currently or I would probably find more options but it seems you didn't really test the spells and builds... or what situations they would be effective in.

Clearly some are more powerful than others like Azur Comet, but this doesn't make the others bad it just means one or two spells are clearly quite overpowered to an abnormal degree.

As others said, some of it comes down to FP efficiency so are you willing to trade FP efficiency for bigger less efficient spells with high dmg results? Or other benefits.

Of course, there is also the simple fact that just like in nearly any other video game with magic (Elder Scrolls, Dark Souls, etc.) there are often tons of useless poorly balanced spells as well that aren't worth looking at so expecting every spell to be amazing would be unrealistic (sadly) but you clearly haven't done enough testing.

Keep in mind magic is almost always safer than melee so that is another trade off. You might get some sick melee jump attack but you are using a ton of stamina and/or trading off being close to the enemy and dying unlike most magics.

[State Line Crosser]

Qubert lähetti viestin:

Evidence? The strat is in many videos it's not a secret. You defiantly don't need some special ash of war to keep distance. Try it yourself, does she attack at long range or do the slow walk of foreshadowing toward you? Keep her doing the slow walk and hit her with ranged attack of some sort, about as simple as kiting gets. Stage 2 is similar as long as you can dodge the flower of doom.

I wasn't asking you to prove it.

[King of Evil]

Frozen Dervish lähetti viestin:

King of Evil lähetti viestin:

To be fair, that's actually really weak when you compare about... pretty much every other method you can use to kill her. You could spam Moonveil & stunlock her, you could break her poise constantly with a good ash of war, you could ... Summon Dung Eater to solo her...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoeH5gw31wo

I'd say it was about the same as moonveil

He's not using Moonveil properly. Hit her with the blade & the skill & she'll get staggered in 1 or 2 hits. Spamming the beam long range is not how you moonveil a boss that easily staggers.

[SpockEndil]

Never played a DS game before. Gave this one a shot and it's pretty fun, although I still haven't worked my way through the learning curve.

I went with sorcerer first, and really enjoy it most of the time. I do get tired of finding myself suddenly in a small room with a strong melee opponent. I die too frequently that way. At range, sorcerer is very fun.

So, I don't have the expertise to comment intelligently about the class being OP or UP. But I can say that I think it's a lot of fun. But because of the close range problems I have, I'm going to try a more melee oriented character.

[Elazul]

My Darkmoon Greatsword does like 1.7k+ damage every charged R2 strike at +9. Scales off my 80 INT. My spells are basically there for stagger or just an alternate to spamming the Greatsword. I run Greatblade Phalanx, Ranni's Dark Moon, Adula's Moonblade, Terra Magicus, and Comet Azur. Hasn't let me down yet.

[Get Donked On]

I like founding rain of stars a lot. Its great for bosses that lunge at you like hoarah loux with surprisingly high dmg to fp ratio and pretty chonky dmg overall. Also the ancient rancor call spell with prince of death staff literally clowned on the final boss for me combined with movement ash of wars on daggers and eldeb ring becomes a joke as a sorcerer

[Mira-Valkyrie]

I kinda wish sorcery had a spell that didn't cost fp that counted as a basic attack. If I wanted to use melee I'd just jump on my strength build. I typically go into int because I want to cast spells.
or at least give us a talisman that recovers FP over time like the HP one.

[<:)]

You trolling OP? Rock sling is OP as ♥♥♥♥

[Emmy]

This game easily favors intelligence in almost every way.
If you can't play around blasting ♥♥♥♥ with up to 70 different sorceries, idk man.

And even putting sorceries aside, every other weapon you pick up in this game is like "int requirement/scaling btw xd"

It feels bad to be anything but an all-rounder or caster, because your potential shiny new playthings in a game designed around wanderlust are few and far between.

[Get Donked On]

Emmy lähetti viestin:

This game easily favors intelligence in almost every way.
If you can't play around blasting ♥♥♥♥ with up to 70 different sorceries, idk man.

And even putting sorceries aside, every other weapon you pick up in this game is like "int requirement/scaling btw xd"

It feels bad to be anything but an all-rounder or caster, because your potential shiny new playthings in a game designed around wanderlust are few and far between.

They did heavy greatswords dirty in this game man how am i supposed to do my strength build when barely anything reaches s tier strength scaling

[َ]

D. Flame lähetti viestin:

Sounds like a git gud issue.

There reason there are a variety of spells is because of their utility. If they were all just about "the biggest number" then there would be no need to use anything other than the strongest one.

Most people whining about sorcery are the same people trying to spam the spell with the biggest number, then crying when it gets the crap slapped out of them as a result.

Sorcery is the most OP option in the game:
https://youtu.be/BLrwKBullcY

[Bike Knight]

I'm loving my INT build.
Wing of Astel ♥♥♥♥♥. Free ranged pokes, can powerstance with another cold curved sword for a large moveset, and Nebula can both delete large enemies and cover me while I drink flasks.
I'm using the Carian Regal Scepter with 55 INT +5 from the talisman. Has the 2nd best spell adjust without any added FP cost, and I find it very funny to finish players off with the longer range Spinning Weapon art.
As for spells, Swift Glintstone Shard and Comet are workhorse straight damage, Magic Glintblade and Carian Phalanx counter input reading AI and give players delayed projectiles to worry about, Shard Spiral tracks very well and shreds apart big bosses over time, Carian Slicer, Piercer, and Moonblade give me a full left handed melee moveset, and Cannon of Haima does a lot of damage in a massive AoE when fully charged. I'd use Stars of Ruin in PvP but it feels cheap and not very interesting.
It's very fun and good. I get a lot of ranged offensive options, Nebula and the delayed shots to protect me while I cast and great melee damage with frostbite buildup. Certainly better than my faith build.

[Frozen Dervish]

Emmy lähetti viestin:

This game easily favors intelligence in almost every way.
If you can't play around blasting ♥♥♥♥ with up to 70 different sorceries, idk man.

And even putting sorceries aside, every other weapon you pick up in this game is like "int requirement/scaling btw xd"

It feels bad to be anything but an all-rounder or caster, because your potential shiny new playthings in a game designed around wanderlust are few and far between.

Number of naturally scaling int weapons and faith
int/total faith
Daggers - 3/16 - 3
S.S. - 6/19 - 4
G.S. - 4/21 - 6
C.S. - 4/11 - 2
T.S. - 0/7 - 0
H.T.S. - 0/4 - 0
Curved S. - 1/15 - 2
C.G.S - 1/9 - 1
Katana - 2/8 - 0
T.S. - 0/6 - 1
Axes - 1/13 - 0
Greataxes - 0/11 - 1
Hammers - 1/15 - 2
Flails - 2/5 - 0
Greathammers - 0/14 - 4
Colossal Weapons - 1/15 - 3
Spears - 4/17 - 2
Greatspears - 0/6 - 3
Halberds - 1/16 - 2
Reapers - 0/4 - 2
Whips - 0/6 - 2
Fists - 0/9 - 2
Claws - 0/4 - 0

For a total of 31/251 int melee weapons. 42/251 faith weapons. All 251 are usable by str/dex. So less than 1/8 of the weapons scale by int. Less than 1/6 scale by faith.

So not even close to 50% of the weapons scale by int naturally. 100% scale by str/dex which means that yes melee builds can use moonveil quite easily.