The Knights of the Great Jar

[ELDT]

So right now I've been deeply enjoying the game. I feel like it's done such a good job at leading and teaching the player. No walks of shame and the stake of Marika system make it less frustrating than I was expecting from a Fromsoft game. And then I found the challenge that just spits in your face and tells you that EVERYTHING that the game's taught you is completely useless and that you should shut the ♥♥♥♥ up. A walk of shame every time through enemies that are hard to just run past. Three consecutive boss fights with npcs who's stats are absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and you can't use ANY of the fights you've fought in the past to learn anything from them. Because they have ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stat thresholds and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ equipment. Listen, I'm sure that the people of you here that have a raging hatred for casuals and want to feel superior to everyone will say to git gud or blame me for being a bad/lazy player. But that's not my point. This challenge contravenes EVERYTHING that has been previously taught to the player. And gives absolutely no leeway for mistakes or any convenience. For the first time playing Elden Ring, I'm feeling absolutely tired and I don't want to go on. I just wanted to give up on this challenge and take a massive break from the game cause no reward is worth suffering through this over and over again. TLDR for the Git Gud crowd. Congratulations. You win. I'm done.

EDIT: 5th post down has my slightly saner and less immediatly frustrated explanation for why I found this entire situation extremely frustrating.

[lightmach]

summon help?

[Timbermaw]

maybe come back later after a few levels

[Týr'el]

This is an optional challenge, any reasonable player would come back later.

Or insist, but it'd be your choice. It may be extremely difficult since we do not have the slightest clue on your build.

[Linyos Torvoltos]

Going to have to agree with you.

I don't think the NPC's are too hard exactly. They don't don't really seem to have the best AI and their attacks are easy to dodge.

But they do have just a bit too much HP that they feel too spongy and the fight felt like a drag.

They deal just a bit too much damage for it to be an endurance challenge.

Like, they're easy to fight. But if you're just slightly too clumsy, you're definitely in for a tight fight through all three.

The talisman you get out of it is straight up not even worth the effort to be honest.

I was expecting some thing interesting or at least a brief quest and a cool character out of the giant pot dude. But nah, he just vibrates and gives you havels ring.

[ELDT]

So coming back after decompressing a little bit and I've realized there were things I wasn't very clear in my rage-frustration high. Apologies for that, but I'll just make things clear now and address some of the comments up til now. First of all, sorry I didn't make this clearer, but I DID beat the fight. My massive frustration with the whole scenario is only tangentially related to the difficulty. The thing that really pissed me off about the entire situation was how this challenge uses none of the lessons the game had taught you throughout its running.

Just listing a few examples:

1. No stake of Marika and a rather annoying walk of shame through Cauldron Giant Archers who will drain resources you will need if you try running through them. There are very few places that I can think of that has a similar setup and the only ones that come to mind are certain points in the Legacy dungeons I've played through so far. Even saying that, running or circumventing the annoying ads on the walk of shame was always possible. Not so much in this case.

2. A randomized pool of enemies whom you will not be able to get used to easily, unless you get lucky and draw the same knights over and over again. This makes learning what each Knight can do a chore and reliant on luck, something that I can't think has happened throughout the game.

3. Each enemy combatant follows the hostile npcs rules. BUT their stat allotment and gear choice is beyond any of the hostile NPC phantoms. Enough so that you can't take anything you've learned into these fights. You have to treat each knight as their own Min-Maxed boss encounter and respond accordingly.

4. This is an endurance battle that is extremely different than any other challenge I've come across in the game. It tests different skills and is very intensive. It also does not allow for any mistakes, as the NPC's have attacks that will put you into a situation where you will have to reset if you make a single mistake. With the added mental burden of the Knights you've already beaten stressing you out and the aforementioned walk of shame.

To address Tyrel's and Timbermaw's comments above, yeah it is indeed an optional challenge that I did not need to do. I don't necessarily think that's a good excuse for how frustrating this was as it was a level of frustration far above what I was used to from the optional challenges I've done. But I do acknowledge that this challenge can be abandoned and forgotten about. And perhaps I would have been much happier had I done that. Regarding the leveling up and coming back, even if I ended up leaving and coming back with 30-40 levels underneath my belt; I would still be as frustrated. It wasn't the difficulty that made me so angry, it was how the game practically sucker punched me with a challenge it never prepared me for and could very easily have addressed. For example each boss or hostile NPC before now has had either easy access back (stake of Marika) or a simple run to get back to the fight (the dragon bosses come to mind). So doing either of those would have made the overall experience less frustrating. The absence of this feature didn't make the fights harder and more enjoyable. It was just more busy work and gave my frustration way more time to boil over.

[ELDT]

That being said, here's my casual advice for those looking to beat this challenge.

First the walk of shame. I have tried multiple different routes to cheese the giants and not bother with them and none of them exactly worked out. I always got hit at least a few times and while there are some fighting places on the duelist plateau where the 2nd giant archer can't hit, running past is just not convenient here at least for me. Killing the giants did become a simple if slightly time intensive affair. Rush up to their feet on torrent while the draw their bows and smack the feet. Back out to avoid the stomp and bait out another archer shot. Then rush to the foot that is at the back (you can still get hit if you just start attacking the frontward foot). The 2nd giant is much the same, just with the addition or running cover to cover and his heels being armored.

As for the preparation for the knights, this will be different for every single build. My build was a dex katana build with int as a mid stat so I could use moonveil katana and sorceries for utility in addition to having just enough endurance and the armory talisman to wear heavy armor. However I did notice some things that are universal. 1. Keep in mind this is an endurance fight. You're going to have the make the judgement call on flask allotment, but things that did help me out a lot was taking the regen health miraculous elixir with a buff to my main damage stat. The first because I was at least always able to stay alive long enough to get the maximum healing out of it and the second to make the fights just a smidge shorter.

As for the three duels, like John Linux said above the AI is very simple. It's the same hostile npc AI you've fought before. HOWEVER with the tools that the AI have here, they can act in really unpredictable ways depending on their kit and as I've mentioned before in my post above; a single mistake can be fatal. General advice is to always assume that the NPC will be able to roll out/escape after 1-2 strikes. Not all of them can, but with this mindset you'll avoid overreaching and getting punished. Keep yourself disciplined and never overreach. It's a long fight, you'll need every single drop of health you have and I cannot repeat this enough but a single mistake can ♥♥♥♥ you over.

Something that helped me is to actually look at the equipment that the NPCs are carrying. If they're using the moonveil katana you know to look out for that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ laser unsheathe. If they don't have a weapon you're familiar with, I actually recommend looking up what it can do to you. Because if you are caught unaware by either a weapon skill or it's special attributes, you will die.

Beyond that, this will be a tedious process of trial and error. I genuinely recommend you wait to do this challenge, Not necessarily because of leveling but just so you can see/obtain all the different gear the NPCs have. Because something that's universal is that each Knight will be limited by their gear. Their gear will inform you how the AI will work and what potential attacks/cheese you can get away with.

[Tijger]

Originally posted by michaelmode:

summon help?

Sounds more like he needs to summon some sense.

[ELDT]

Originally posted by Tijger:

Originally posted by michaelmode:

summon help?

Sounds more like he needs to summon some sense.

Thank you for that zinger Tijger. Your brevity of wit and clear communication is awe inspiring in the face of the frustrating experience I had. It is such a concise and witty response I cannot help but feel awe in its magnificence, in its posterity. Truly you have brought me to shame in acknowledging none of my points and showing absolutely no empathy to my plight. I shall immediately search my soul for this "some sense" you speak off.

[Sivolde]

The only thing I can say is that I just stagger locked them with a str weapon and jump attacks like every invader npc and they went down easy enough.

[Einstine]

I cheesed it per the cheese method. Still worked after patch 1.3.

There is a dead tree hanging over a cliff just down from the three red summons. You jump on it and go as far out on it as you can. When they come they will likely run toward you and go right off the cliff. If not, then move forward and then back. This should get them to start moving again. Do that until they go over. It worked for me first time but you can get different guys so I can't guarantee it will work 100% of the time.

Should note, this was offline, if it matters.

[Rozpierdalacz]

I beaten them at lv 40 with +10 weapon. Its not unfair challange.

[Einstine]

I do not believe you can summon here. My brother and I tried and it did not work. Could have been operator error on our part but we'd been summoning for coop a number of times.

[Grimshot]

I killed these guys in a couple attempts just by walking at them with Spinning Strikes (they get stuck flinching over and over for the most part). I had it on a Militia Saw with the Bloodflame Blade buff, bloody fun it was. As for the Giant archers I never took damage from them once, all you have to do is back away so they start to shoot then hit them in the feet.

[ELDT]

Originally posted by Rozpierdalacz:

I beaten them at lv 40 with +10 weapon. Its not unfair challange.

I mean, I am genuinely glad that you were able to beat it and have a good experience with it, but that doesn't really address my point. My biggest problem with it is that it's a challenge the game never prepares you for and doesn't follow any of the logic that its shown in it's challenge structure previously.

[Einstine]

Also, heading into that area, at the feet of the first Archer there is a really nice Greatshield that only needs 20 strength to wield. Spiked Palisade Shield. Has the skill Shield Bash. Not sure you even need to kill the archer to get it as you can probably run by on Torrent, but they aren't hard to kill.