Tank build not working (Advice needed)

[Julymorning]

So I farmed runes, pumped a lot of points into Vigor and Endurance, my friend also dropped me a stronk armor and greatshield. But boss fight is still 2-3 hit KO and shield cant block enough. I thought this game was RPG

[Legendairy2]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von cklambo \T/:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xxanno:

RPG? Hardly. Use magic or find a weapon that has long reach or swings really fast. After you have found that and at most have medium weight then invest the rest of your runes to upgrades and vigor. Armor is optional since it can't be upgraded and just weights you down.

Alternativly search the wiki to Min-Max.

Edit: Of course I should mention: Moveset over numbers. If the weapon have great stats, but feels like garbage to use then it is garbage.

Don't be telling new players there is only 1 way to play please.

I do agree with this. I have already beat the game as a thick boy Colossal sword user and breezed through. Playing through on 2 other characters, one is pure Dex w/ Nagakiba and Longbow, 1 shotting all bosses and 3rd is a mage w/ shield also breezing through

[Legendairy2]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von evan.alonso1:

Another things to mention,end game faith incantation really help to tank through everything. With the right setup, most end game bosses, when they hit me, I lost like 1/6 of my life (40 vigor)

I am so excited for my 4th play through as ive been saving it for last and will be my paladin faith build

[evan.alonso1]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von RE/PAKO:

That will be the picture for the rest of the game, you will die in 2-3 hits from bosses and there blocked combos will melt your endurance.

I disagree

[Julymorning]

This game doesn't make sense. My sorcerer friend dies in 3 hits but I start as barbarian and die in 3 hit too. Store page say this game "RPG"

[Xengre]

This is an action game first, with RPG elements to support it.

There is some limits to pure level based stats for a tank build due to how DMG Negation calculations work, aka what your armor and stuff increases. Flat defenses are gained from levels which help as you level any stat. You got Vigor as necessary I hope (you mention it but do you actually have enough?).

For DMG Negation usually it will be around 12~38% depending on how heavy armor you have. Because of how it is calculated much heavier armor does not necessarily result in much higher dmg negation. In fact, you are arguably better off respeccing some of that endurance for a bit more weight efficient high defensive armor unless you also use a particularly heavy shield/weapon or love the extra stamina. Most of DMG negation's truly high values come from buffs, more on that later.

You can use the barricade ash or magic shield, or both iirc (I think I've read from others on here, but I don't really use shields so I've not tested it directly but it probably works just like DS3's) to get shield values high enough. When they get to 100% in a dmg type it blocks 100% of all damage of that type. Example 100% physical, 100% fire, etc. Getting Guard Stability to 100 means you will take no stamina damage with your block, too, so you could block easily indefinitely as long as the dmg type and guard stability are 100% via the prior ash and magic buff mentioned. Use your ash/buffs they make a world of difference.

Next up is talismans. Is that magic dragon dealing blue fire attacks and using sorcery spells? It is probably a magic based elemental dragon. Use the Spelldrake Talisman vs it (+2 or whatever best one you have). This can result in a nice significant boost in Dmg Negation % on top of your armor. It is not additive, again, but multiplicative so just because the wiki says +2 gives +20% doesn't mean you will see that 38% jump to 58% precisely. Still, the difference is definitely worth it.

Next up is buffs. We will use that same magic based dragon for example. Every element has two resistance buffs. A basic one with virtually no stat requirements that provides a very strong but weaker buff compared to the upgraded version, which is aoe (or at least some are AoE making it amazing for coop/spirit ashes). With the basic one buff plus the spelldrake talisman +1, for instance, on top of some pretty light armor on my SL1 (cause I don't have squat endurance) I was able to make the same magic dragon that constantly 1-shot me not 1-shot me with every attack it did that was not pure physical. With the top end buffs, which I do not have yet, if it is like DS3 you might be able to get PvE resistances up to around 80-96% making you extremely resistant to magic/fire/lightning/holy damage types. For physical damage there is usually a pretty significant limit to how much you would typically reduce. Obviously, avoid talisman that cut Dmg negation such as the Scarseal/Soreseal talismans once your Vigor reaches 36 or higher. Endure seems to be this game's Perseverance effect from DS3 though I don't have it to test the values, yet, but could probably push you up to around 98% dmg negation with the right build making it godlike for trading with enough supporting FP against heavy boss attacks that are physical and stuff except... when looking it up just now apparently it is bugged as of last patch and has absolutely no poise so you will get staggered using it and lose the effect rather than getting to trade attacks. I don't know if there is another one like this that can boost physical defense, yet, as I'm not done with the game.

Other than this you are going to want to simply be healing be it regenerative effects or miracles/flasks. For a true tank that goes very long distance you want miracles to heal you because in terms of flask > FP > miracle HP recovery if it is anything like DS3 (again, I've not run this build or numbers for this particular conversion but I'd bet its still the case) it is obscenely efficient compared to just HP flasks. Whether or not there are solid prayers that aren't excessively slow compared to flasks, though, is going to be the big question. Some prayers were slow in DS3 but some were decently fast as long as you learned to pick the right time and some were even very fast (the ranged heal orb thing from Ringed City). It might be worth carrying at least 3-4 HP flasks as emergency quick heals, though, if running this setup.

However, if you are ultimately looking to make a nigh unkillable tank build this isn't the game you are looking for. Keep that in mind. They want you to still be killable in the end so while you can do a lot of stuff to make it work don't expect to be OP, at least not against physical damage.

[Xxanno]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von cklambo \T/:

That is how the majority of players play.

But op is right, it is a rpg so other playstyles can work too. I have never used rolling in ds1/2/3 & always use a strength build. Beat those games no problem.

Don't be telling new players there is only 1 way to play please.

Now I did not write that it's only one way to play. I wrote two. But sure bows are also on the table.

[Bricky strong]

Because tank build don't work in this game and later on it gets worse for tank builds. You can tank barely right up until Maliketh, then your tank doesn't work anymore and he litterally lowers your health down and one shots you. The game's for guys that are good at dodging and and striking at perfect timing and if you can't do this, you wont have much fun.

[evan.alonso1]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Legendairy2:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von evan.alonso1:

Another things to mention,end game faith incantation really help to tank through everything. With the right setup, most end game bosses, when they hit me, I lost like 1/6 of my life (40 vigor)

I am so excited for my 4th play through as ive been saving it for last and will be my paladin faith build

No spoil, but I use 4 incantation and when they stack I'm incredibly resistant. I also have some very tanky talisman, just found one today who increase hugely phys res, I'm at 50%, half of the phys.

[Big Dog]

Try using a spear with the shield!

[Legendairy2]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Julymorning:

This game doesn't make sense. My sorcerer friend dies in 3 hits but I start as barbarian and die in 3 hit too. Store page say this game "RPG"

It is an RPG, you get to make many choices throughout your journey that will affect the outcome of the game. Not sure what more you want, sorry this is not you typical trinity system MMO game.

[Xengre]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Julymorning:

This game doesn't make sense. My sorcerer friend dies in 3 hits but I start as barbarian and die in 3 hit too. Store page say this game "RPG"

Look at his resistances, aka dmg negation, and yours. Its because of how armor works. You need the talisman/buffs, except the whole physical dmg issue I mentioned.

[Julymorning]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bricky strong:

Because tank build don't work in this game and later on it gets worse for tank builds. You can tank barely right up until Maliketh, then your tank doesn't work anymore and he litterally lowers your health down and one shots you. The game's for guys that are good at dodging and and striking at perfect timing and if you can't do this, you wont have much fun.

well can you tell me why is this RPG then???

[evan.alonso1]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Bricky strong:

Because tank build don't work in this game and later on it gets worse for tank builds. You can tank barely right up until Maliketh, then your tank doesn't work anymore and he litterally lowers your health down and one shots you. The game's for guys that are good at dodging and and striking at perfect timing and if you can't do this, you wont have much fun.

I disagree, I tank Godfroy very efficiently, but yeah jumping and dodging is required yes.

[Julymorning]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xengre:

This is an action game first, with RPG elements to support it.

There is some limits to pure level based stats for a tank build due to how DMG Negation calculations work, aka what your armor and stuff increases. Flat defenses are gained from levels which help as you level any stat. You got Vigor as necessary I hope (you mention it but do you actually have enough?).

For DMG Negation usually it will be around 12~38% depending on how heavy armor you have. Because of how it is calculated much heavier armor does not necessarily result in much higher dmg negation. In fact, you are arguably better off respeccing some of that endurance for a bit more weight efficient high defensive armor unless you also use a particularly heavy shield/weapon or love the extra stamina. Most of DMG negation's truly high values come from buffs, more on that later.

You can use the barricade ash or magic shield, or both iirc (I think I've read from others on here, but I don't really use shields so I've not tested it directly but it probably works just like DS3's) to get shield values high enough. When they get to 100% in a dmg type it blocks 100% of all damage of that type. Example 100% physical, 100% fire, etc. Getting Guard Stability to 100 means you will take no stamina damage with your block, too, so you could block easily indefinitely as long as the dmg type and guard stability are 100% via the prior ash and magic buff mentioned. Use your ash/buffs they make a world of difference.

Next up is talismans. Is that magic dragon dealing blue fire attacks and using sorcery spells? It is probably a magic based elemental dragon. Use the Spelldrake Talisman vs it (+2 or whatever best one you have). This can result in a nice significant boost in Dmg Negation % on top of your armor. It is not additive, again, but multiplicative so just because the wiki says +2 gives +20% doesn't mean you will see that 38% jump to 58% precisely. Still, the difference is definitely worth it.

Next up is buffs. We will use that same magic based dragon for example. Every element has two resistance buffs. A basic one with virtually no stat requirements that provides a very strong but weaker buff compared to the upgraded version, which is aoe (or at least some are AoE making it amazing for coop/spirit ashes). With the basic one buff plus the spelldrake talisman +1, for instance, on top of some pretty light armor on my SL1 (cause I don't have squat endurance) I was able to make the same magic dragon that constantly 1-shot me not 1-shot me with every attack it did that was not pure physical. With the top end buffs, which I do not have yet, if it is like DS3 you might be able to get PvE resistances up to around 80-96% making you extremely resistant to magic/fire/lightning/holy damage types. For physical damage there is usually a pretty significant limit to how much you would typically reduce. Obviously, avoid talisman that cut Dmg negation such as the Scarseal/Soreseal talismans once your Vigor reaches 36 or higher. Endure seems to be this game's Perseverance effect from DS3 though I don't have it to test the values, yet, but could probably push you up to around 98% dmg negation with the right build making it godlike for trading with enough supporting FP against heavy boss attacks that are physical and stuff except... when looking it up just now apparently it is bugged as of last patch and has absolutely no poise so you will get staggered using it and lose the effect rather than getting to trade attacks. I don't know if there is another one like this that can boost physical defense, yet, as I'm not done with the game.

Other than this you are going to want to simply be healing be it regenerative effects or miracles/flasks. For a true tank that goes very long distance you want miracles to heal you because in terms of flask > FP > miracle HP recovery if it is anything like DS3 (again, I've not run this build or numbers for this particular conversion but I'd bet its still the case) it is obscenely efficient compared to just HP flasks. Whether or not there are solid prayers that aren't excessively slow compared to flasks, though, is going to be the big question. Some prayers were slow in DS3 but some were decently fast as long as you learned to pick the right time and some were even very fast (the ranged heal orb thing from Ringed City). It might be worth carrying at least 3-4 HP flasks as emergency quick heals, though, if running this setup.

However, if you are ultimately looking to make a nigh unkillable tank build this isn't the game you are looking for. Keep that in mind. They want you to still be killable in the end so while you can do a lot of stuff to make it work don't expect to be OP, at least not against physical damage.

i cant read all this but sounds like bs

[Legendairy2]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von evan.alonso1:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Legendairy2:

I am so excited for my 4th play through as ive been saving it for last and will be my paladin faith build

No spoil, but I use 4 incantation and when they stack I'm incredibly resistant. I also have some very tanky talisman, just found one today who increase hugely phys res, I'm at 50%, half of the phys.

Oh yea, Ive already done 1 full playthrough, NG+ halfway, 2 other characters halfway lol. I know exactly the build I am chasing but wont cheese the items. Going to naturally get them as I progress. I dont like the whole, run 15 mins north, get a weapon that you shouldnt see for 40 hours, and then cheese everything method