Bloodhound's Step Galore

[Wacky (LucentLogan)]

PvP meta is absolutely infested with nothing but bloodhound step, bleed builds. It's such a boring thing to fight against because there's no counter play to it. If you try and space it and hit them at the end of the animation and their attack, they can just spam bloodhound step again. If you end up trading, the other person will likely end up winning the trade because they have poise and will just face tank your attack and stack instant bleed on top of it. The only thing I can think of is to just roll everything until they run out of fp but blood step has such little fp consumption that it would take way too long than I'm willing to spend. Bleed also stacks even if you're i-framing their attacks so not even rolling all their attacks will work.

What is the counter play to Bloodhound's Step?

[Is This Your Card? 69]

Цитата допису ☣FreshlyGrilledPanic☣:

Imagine complaining about Bloodhound step when rivers of blood and moonveil exist.

RoB and Moonveil can be dodged, although dodging RoB is harder.
BHS literally gives you 0 opportunities due to the questionable iframes and pressure / safety it gives combined with the distance travelled at the almost non-existent cost of FP and stamina.

[Fuzzy]

Цитата допису iSellShake:

Цитата допису TyresTyco:

Whats the problem ? MOst of the time .. one single hit will kill them. The counter to them is just standing there.. tanking a hit and hyperarmor through their attacks killing them in one hit.

Requires some patience so which seems a lot of people here lack since a couple of minutes horse riding is enough for them to quit the game.

unless i am misunderstanding you, considering you mentioned horse riding, and saying 1 hit kills them, i assume you dont even engage in PVP because you cant use your horse while invaded, and 1 hit definitely does not kill them, and you will most likely take damage and be staggered first as they come out of BHS depending on the weapon they use, and if they are using a bleed weapon you will almost always die to blood loss first if you just try to face tank them unless you are using a similar build, and they can also BHS away faster than you can chase, so if you do manage to hit them they usually just step away after 1 or 2 hits and you eventually die to blood loss. i would absolutely love to see a video of you just standing there face tanking against a BHS+bleed opponent and killing them in 1 hit.

Read much??? they are saying people are impatient and using the horse as an example.

[iSellShake]

Цитата допису Dragonirian:

Цитата допису iSellShake:

I have numerous videos that show how broken bloodhound step is due to iframes I assume. A friend and I tested it, both with 400mbps down/20 mbps up while hardwired, pings ranging from 15-25, and FPS varying between 55-59...and you can see countless attacks that land either just before going into or coming out of the step that do not register. Glinstones, stars of ruin, bestial sling, lightning, etc. that do not register. I have hit people directly in the chest with a lightning spear as they come out of it and it does nothing, even melee attacks. The ONLY way to do damage to someone using that skill is to wait for them to attack and trade damage with them. However, unsurprisingly every single one of them uses a bleed build with seppuku and unless you are running the same thing, you will always lose that encounter regardless of your resistance to bleed and armor. Parrying is possible, but not viable because most PVP connections are god awful. Even with heavy armor and high bleed resistance, I am still dead within 4-5 hits against a bleed build and you are staggered for 2-3 of them, unable to dodge..and as soon as you are able to roll away it is pointless to do so because bloodhound step is faster and travels further than a roll. Even when blocking using a 100% physical damage negation shield the blood loss bar fills up which makes absolutely no sense, and there is no cooldown on when blood loss can be applied again like there is for frost or rot.
When 75% of PVP interactions consist of people using nearly the same exact build, there is an issue. It makes PVP so incredibly boring knowing exactly how a fight is going to go as soon as someone invades or you summon a duelist. I am fine with the idea of bloodhound step but it needs reworked. No skill should allow a player to cover a 100 foot gap in seconds all while be invincible at the cost of a measly 6 FP and no other repercussion. No other skill in this game is that free of negative consequence such as leaving you open for an attack or some way to reliably counter it. Having to carry a specific item to counter 1 move is hardly any different than having to dump 37 points into intelligence just to use law of regression to counter the death blight exploit boys before the patch. The only people that defend bloodhound step are the people that use it. What's worse is most just use the step & poke combo, with the step covering more distance than a roll, and the range of a thrusting weapon, your only option is to roll into them and die to blood loss unless you are lucky enough to have a good connection and manage a parry consistently. I love PVP in these games, but this bloodhound step + seppuku is ruining it. Below is just a video of a friend and I messing around testing it out because we were both having the same issue. You can clearly see numerous hits, especially when viewed in slow motion, that do not register..and this is just one of many examples.

https://youtu.be/uny6TmaJ7Mo

Bloodhound dodge uses FP. Bait them into using it and waste their flasks, evade their attacks. Same sh*t with mages. If some op thing is limited resource - make sure to waste that resource.

it uses a negligible amount of fp, covers more distance in less time than a roll or any other evasive skill, and can be followed up instantly by an attack with a weapon that extends that range even further, often combined with a status effect that cannot be resisted and that also resets immediately after the bar fills before being able to be applied again, and negates damage entirely while using it. unless you out DPS them with melee, you will lose that fight the majority of the time before they run out of FP and flasks because you cannot out run them, and you cannot hurt them until they are directly on top of you, and you cannot hit them with almost any skill after they hit it 3 times to get away and flask up. Please post a video of you doing this consistently in a 1v1 without using BHS.

[iSellShake]

Цитата допису Fuzzy:

Цитата допису iSellShake:

unless i am misunderstanding you, considering you mentioned horse riding, and saying 1 hit kills them, i assume you dont even engage in PVP because you cant use your horse while invaded, and 1 hit definitely does not kill them, and you will most likely take damage and be staggered first as they come out of BHS depending on the weapon they use, and if they are using a bleed weapon you will almost always die to blood loss first if you just try to face tank them unless you are using a similar build, and they can also BHS away faster than you can chase, so if you do manage to hit them they usually just step away after 1 or 2 hits and you eventually die to blood loss. i would absolutely love to see a video of you just standing there face tanking against a BHS+bleed opponent and killing them in 1 hit.

Read much??? they are saying people are impatient and using the horse as an example.

like i said, i may have misunderstood what he meant. I interpreted "riding your horse for a couple minutes is enough for them to quit the game" as that is all it takes before an invader decided to leave your world because they cant catch you. no need to get bent out of shape.

[iSellShake]

Цитата допису Not Zane:

Цитата допису ☣FreshlyGrilledPanic☣:

Imagine complaining about Bloodhound step when rivers of blood and moonveil exist.

RoB and Moonveil can be dodged, although dodging RoB is harder.
BHS literally gives you 0 opportunities due to the questionable iframes and pressure / safety it gives combined with the distance travelled at the almost non-existent cost of FP and stamina.

exactly. not sure what is so hard to understand that the issue is not with the idea of the skill, it is an issue with the seamless iframes between uses that come with it for next to nothing. ive said what i had to say here though. and still the only people that defend it are PVE'ers or people that use it, which i assumed would be the case.

[GermanyMan]

I care about PvP. Why should i ignore a product given to me? I want the whole experience, PvP included.
Therefore the fixes are mandatory.

[iSellShake]

Цитата допису p00se2:

Цитата допису iSellShake:

if one skill changes your ability to combat 2 or 3 people that dramatically and changes your play style entirely with all other factors being the same, then there is clearly an issue.

isnt a skill or ability supposed to / meant to change your playstyle in many marvelous ways ?
hows that an issue really

no. one ability or skill should not change your entire play style in many ways in my opinion. at most it should enhance a certain aspect of your play style. changing various aspects of your build should change your play style, not applying one ability that costs almost nothing to use and provides you with protection, offense, and defense. really, the only issue here is with the seamless iframes combined with essentially no delay between uses. no ability should allow a player to cover a 100 foot gap while taking no damage or having to use any effort to do so in my opinion. imagine if a mage could equip an ash of war on a staff that let them teleport or phase from one location to another as quickly as someone can use BHS? everyone in here defending BHS would absolutely be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about mages being able to teleport. do you disagree? you have to realize BHS is essentially teleporting because you cannot damage them while they are using it repeatedly.

[bradams]

Цитата допису Sifer2:

Цитата допису OutSeal:

soon enough they will nerf all ashes of war and they will only be used for infusion if we go like this

Melee builds didn't need them to be good in past games so what if they do? It's purely a bonus move for Melee builds. The fact they are so good, and so cheap to spam to the point that's almost all anyone does shows they do in fact need to be nerfed hard. I would say quadruple most Ash of Wars FP cost as a starter. Only those early game one's that are not so powerful should be cheap.

If you want my honest opinion, I think that weapon arts should be more akin to a weapon durability system than the FP system. Like every art should have a certain number of uses between grace points that are un-replenishable until resting. It would both allow for players who like to be spec'ed really hard into melee to not have to waste a ton of points on Mind in order to use the art multiple times, while also almost completely negating excessive spamming by not having a potion that just refills it all, over and over. I'm sure plenty of people would disagree, but I feel like giving say, BHS 10 or 15 uses total before it needs to be "recharged" at a grace point would be a fair way to cut down on spamming without having to alter it at all. (then again I'm sure that would just lead to people getting multiples of the same weapon and cloning BHS and putting it on those weapons, but being forced to switch mid-fight during invasions would still probably prove to be more of a detriment than potion chugging is)

Of course, such a system would never be put into Elden Ring now that it is already out, but I think a system like that would feel overall better in the long run.

[Dragonirian]

Цитата допису iSellShake:

Цитата допису Dragonirian:

Bloodhound dodge uses FP. Bait them into using it and waste their flasks, evade their attacks. Same sh*t with mages. If some op thing is limited resource - make sure to waste that resource.

it uses a negligible amount of fp, covers more distance in less time than a roll or any other evasive skill, and can be followed up instantly by an attack with a weapon that extends that range even further, often combined with a status effect that cannot be resisted and that also resets immediately after the bar fills before being able to be applied again, and negates damage entirely while using it. unless you out DPS them with melee, you will lose that fight the majority of the time before they run out of FP and flasks because you cannot out run them, and you cannot hurt them until they are directly on top of you, and you cannot hit them with almost any skill after they hit it 3 times to get away and flask up. Please post a video of you doing this consistently in a 1v1 without using BHS.

Yes, it's going to be long, but what i said is a viable strategy, since people tent to not lvl mind. They'll do the dodge about 10-15 times and they're out. Don't attack them when they come out, roll out of the way, provoke them to use it by hitting them.
The "instant attack when they come out" is the same as the one after a normal roll. Those attacks are easily parriable.

In other words, stop trying to win by only using dodge and r1.

[TyresTyco]

Цитата допису iSellShake:

Цитата допису TyresTyco:

Whats the problem ? MOst of the time .. one single hit will kill them. The counter to them is just standing there.. tanking a hit and hyperarmor through their attacks killing them in one hit.

Requires some patience so which seems a lot of people here lack since a couple of minutes horse riding is enough for them to quit the game.

unless i am misunderstanding you, considering you mentioned horse riding, and saying 1 hit kills them, i assume you dont even engage in PVP because you cant use your horse while invaded, and 1 hit definitely does not kill them, and you will most likely take damage and be staggered first as they come out of BHS depending on the weapon they use, and if they are using a bleed weapon you will almost always die to blood loss first if you just try to face tank them unless you are using a similar build, and they can also BHS away faster than you can chase, so if you do manage to hit them they usually just step away after 1 or 2 hits and you eventually die to blood loss. i would absolutely love to see a video of you just standing there face tanking against a BHS+bleed opponent and killing them in 1 hit.

No. I meant what I said. It all depends on the build. I literally one hit people trying to attack me with their youtube builds. I use ruin greatsword with maxed poise btw.

I think you are all stupid af and dont experiment at all. Just because you all consume far to many elden ring youtube videos.

[Angrypillow]

Цитата допису Dragonirian:

Цитата допису Sabaithal:

PvP isn't the focus of this game. Stop demanding the game be dumbed down to prioritize it.

It's primarily pvp game with pve background.

That's like, your opinion, man...the overwhelming opposition to invasions and the already thriving mod community pretty much drives that thought into the ground.

[Kerrack]

The counter play to Bloodhound's Step is *even more* Bloodhound's Step.
If every pvp match doesn't look like a buncha those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ from Bleach flashstepping all over the place, why even bother?

[Dragonirian]

Цитата допису AngryPillow:

Цитата допису Dragonirian:

It's primarily pvp game with pve background.

That's like, your opinion, man...the overwhelming opposition to invasions and the already thriving mod community pretty much drives that thought into the ground.

"Opposition to invasions" was here for more than a decade, since 2008. Devs clearly think this is a core part of the game, otherwise they would make a pure coop game for casuals.
Invasions are here to stay and your misconception of the game concept will not change that. Deal with it, git gud, or go play another game.

[Requimatic]

The two aspects of the game should be entirely separate balance-wise. It's the only PvP nerfs aren't going to entirely neuter things for PvE.

Don't misunderstand, Hoarfrost Stomp had it coming; it was way too good. However, it's basically useless now.

Mimic I had just gotten and it seemed okay at its base level. Now, however, having it at +10.. it seems extremely hit or miss depending on what I summon it to fight. I assume it probably performs better with different weapons than I currently try to summon it with depending on the situation.

[Matsuu]

I have very mixed feelings about BHS, I have around 70 hours in ER PvP and I can definitely say that in a 1v1 BHS is just overpowered and shouldn't be a thing, but because of the invasion system that heavily favours host and his buttbuddies there is no other way to play 1v3 , you have to use bhs to kite them so if they remove bhs 1v1's will be better but invasions will be trash tier but if they keep it it's also bad for the game balance, sad