why does vigour = scrub?

[Rara]

I get that having more health means you're taking less risks, but in this game, you need more health or pixel perfect dodges.
you wont even make it through some of the areas without high vigour, or at least dumping all your health pots on your way.

why is it seen as a bad thing to get more vigour?

[Funpire]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Rara:

sooo, elitists being elitists?

no, elitists would tell you if you don't level vigor, then you level dex, like a ....

[Vicrone]

vigor was my first stat i put to 99 ♥♥♥♥ that im eating all that damage and laughing at bosses especially when someone invades me ha i stand still and let them run out of stamina

[Kain]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Rail Vicrone:

vigor was my first stat i put to 99 ♥♥♥♥ that im eating all that damage and laughing at bosses especially when someone invades me ha i stand still and let them run out of stamina

Chad move, respect.

[Ancient]

Opprinnelig skrevet av RaphaniacZX:

Anybody that advocates having less vigour is a good thing can't do basic math, is a masochist in the full sense of the word, doesn't understand on average they would loose about 10-12% damage in exchange for a lot higher health counts and more chances to get better at the game and learn the enemy patterns, and is, honestly, a dumb ass.

So I don't know whoever told you that, but if there's an opinion to invalidate from objetive reasons, it's that one, 40 vigour should be STANDARD for any endgame build.

The math is more like this:

20 Vigor = 652 HP
50 Vigor = 1704 HP

25 Dex = 389 AR
55 Dex = 447 AR

(of course varies by weapon but not enough to make this inaccurate in any case)

So, you can increase your HP by 161.32% for the same 30 points that in a "damage" stat will only be a 14.91% increase.

The scaling of vigor speaks for itself, at least up to a certain point, and should almost always be in your top 3 while leveling. Dex, Str, Fai and Int provide relatively lackluster rewards for going beyond weapon or spell requirements and especially beyond each softcap, while higher vigor always pays off because it's scaling is so damn good.

Also, that same great scaling applies to Mimic Tear's HP as well.

[Blitz4]

as you git gud
you get hit less
you know what will one-shot you
you have multiple ways to avoid getting one-shotted
thus you spend less in vigor and more in damage

if you want a crash course on this concept. try a SL1 run.

EDIT: but if you're discussing a build, like a meta pvp build. you need that vigor as there's so much cheese.

I still feel you should focus on vigor your first playthrough, not do NewGame, and the second playthrough do whatever you feel will make you a better player, taking you out of your comfort zone. It's not for me to tell you what that is, I could only give you ideas to try.

[Clockeye]

Opprinnelig skrevet av ReBootXD:

when has anyone ever said that leveling vigor is scrubish? i can't imagine anyone saying that being serious and not saying it as a joke

wow you never met the "other" side of the DS community. I see them all the time when someone dares to post anything negative about this game. But lately, not so much. Guess all their REEEing tired them out, and are taking a nap lol.

[Xengre]

Vigor is the best stat by far. Get it. Not getting it unless doing a challenge run is the equivalent of crippling yourself. Even a mage wants to rush some vigor and eventually have vigor comparable to a melee user because it is just that good.

Some stuff like shields/parry/mimic/specific builds and stuff are very potent and a kind of crutch that can reinforce bad play or even sidestep difficulty in content entirely at times but who cares if you want to use it? Same for spirit ashes or summons. No need to make the game anti-fun just because of some elitism or to fit in with the community. You play to have fun, not to fit in. Heck, even if you were doing a challenge run I don't think it would be too odd to use a crutch if you just absolutely got stuck, if you completed the majority under the challenge conditions (so long as you don't act like an elitist snob about doing something you didn't or give bad advice based on it). You do you and have fun.

[Moe]

You only need as much Vigor as your skill dictates. Some people are going to be better than others about dodging or staying away from attacks. Others need a large health pool to compensate for getting hit. my astroleger is only lvl 80 or so and i've found that getting my Vigor up to 20 made a huge difference for me in surviving. I am NOT remotely close to being "pro" at this game. definitely a filthy casual.

[Kain]

I think high vigor is great for you to have enough health to study enemy movement and not die in one hit.

[Yoshimitsu]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Rara:

I get that having more health means you're taking less risks, but in this game, you need more health or pixel perfect dodges.
you wont even make it through some of the areas without high vigour, or at least dumping all your health pots on your way.

why is it seen as a bad thing to get more vigour?

Just don't listen to people. simple. Just play your game that you bought and play it with max health. I don't care that you do. Play how you want to play (but fair as in not cheating.) Hope this helps friend

[AlienJay]

Ive never heard anyone say that lol . You could also say fast rolling instead of fat rolling is for scrubs . It would make just as much sense.

[Xengre]

Opprinnelig skrevet av AlienJay:

Ive never heard anyone say that lol . You could also say fast rolling instead of fat rolling is for scrubs . It would make just as much sense.

Nah, real gamers don't roll. They walk.

Alright, I'll see myself out. jk

[Poison Mind]

Frankly i still don't know if Elden Ring is poorly balanced or if they really changed the meta.
20 in vigor used to be a good all around in DS series, but in elden ring with this amount you'll get one shot by almost everything most of the time. From this perspective it seems we should invest a lot in vigor (50+).
But on the other hand, you still have to improve your other stats in order to orient your character to the build your aiming; be it a mage, a warrior or some kind of death knight. If you don't you'll basically stick to your starting stuff and it may get boring.

Thing is, past a certain point, damage dealt by enemy is boosted by such an amount that most attacks will one shot you if you didn't boost your vigor... I made my character about the same way i would have done in DS (in DS i would have stick with 20, here i had 32 in vigor), i just arrived in the capital level 65 and thoses pages one shot me with their crossbow like wtf... These guys could killed Rahdan blindfolded !
It kinda felt awkward so i checked on reddit, people were saying that even with 50 vigor these guys could one shot them.
For me, it's a balancce issue. If Rhadan is supposed to have destroyed an army on his own (lore wise) these guys shouldn't be able to hit harder than him.

DS was challenging but fair, Elden Ring feels awkward. You can cheese your way out, but you'll have an hard time if you try to play fair like you did in DS. Difficulty is cheap here : enemies have high HP, high damage but their AI is not as good as it used to be.

[Ancient]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Poison Mind:

Frankly i still don't know if Elden Ring is poorly balanced or if they really changed the meta.
20 in vigor used to be a good all around in DS series, but in elden ring with this amount you'll get one shot by almost everything most of the time. From this perspective it seems we should invest a lot in vigor (50+).
But on the other hand, you still have to improve your other stats in order to orient your character to the build your aiming; be it a mage, a warrior or some kind of death knight. If you don't you'll basically stick to your starting stuff and it may get boring.

Thing is, past a certain point, damage dealt by enemy is boosted by such an amount that most attacks will one shot you if you didn't boost your vigor... I made my character about the same way i would have done in DS (in DS i would have stick with 20, here i had 32 in vigor), i just arrived in the capital level 65 and thoses pages one shot me with their crossbow like wtf... These guys could killed Rahdan blindfolded !
It kinda felt awkward so i checked on reddit, people were saying that even with 50 vigor these guys could one shot them.
For me, it's a balancce issue. If Rhadan is supposed to have destroyed an army on his own (lore wise) these guys shouldn't be able to hit harder than him.

DS was challenging but fair, Elden Ring feels awkward. You can cheese your way out, but you'll have an hard time if you try to play fair like you did in DS. Difficulty is cheap here : enemies have high HP, high damage but their AI is not as good as it used to be.

Yes. DS3 was a short game by comparison. If you had even a modicum of hair on your balls, you finished DS3 by SL80 or so.

ER, you will at best finish by 120 or 130.

They rebalanced things to account for that and about 20 levels of that difference, at least, is meant to be dumped into Vig to prevent 1-shots.

It gets pretty ridiculous by the time you hit MoG with only 20 Vig.

[Kain]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Poison Mind:

Frankly i still don't know if Elden Ring is poorly balanced or if they really changed the meta.
20 in vigor used to be a good all around in DS series, but in elden ring with this amount you'll get one shot by almost everything most of the time. From this perspective it seems we should invest a lot in vigor (50+).
But on the other hand, you still have to improve your other stats in order to orient your character to the build your aiming; be it a mage, a warrior or some kind of death knight. If you don't you'll basically stick to your starting stuff and it may get boring.

Thing is, past a certain point, damage dealt by enemy is boosted by such an amount that most attacks will one shot you if you didn't boost your vigor... I made my character about the same way i would have done in DS (in DS i would have stick with 20, here i had 32 in vigor), i just arrived in the capital level 65 and thoses pages one shot me with their crossbow like wtf... These guys could killed Rahdan blindfolded !
It kinda felt awkward so i checked on reddit, people were saying that even with 50 vigor these guys could one shot them.
For me, it's a balancce issue. If Rhadan is supposed to have destroyed an army on his own (lore wise) these guys shouldn't be able to hit harder than him.

DS was challenging but fair, Elden Ring feels awkward. You can cheese your way out, but you'll have an hard time if you try to play fair like you did in DS. Difficulty is cheap here : enemies have high HP, high damage but their AI is not as good as it used to be.

It's poorly balanced.