Weapon stat scaling

[Sir Lucient]

So, is weapon stat scaling broken, or is FROMM just being stupid again?

I have 40 strength and 40 dexterity and a Quality affinity added to a weapon still does half the damage that a Sacred one does... which scale from my 9 faith. What the hell is this?

Same with any of the other ones. Weapons that scale with Int (which mine is 9) still do 50% more damage then my primary stats. This is obviously Broken.

[Timbermaw]

That doesn't look right, post some pics
What is the weapon upgrade level? Low level weapons have ♥♥♥♥ scaling overall
Also weapons that do mixed damage are usually worse than single damage since both damage types will suffer damage reduction separately

[Sir Lucient]

The weapons are +12

I've tested it with more then 20 weapons now (which are all +12)
Obviously weapons like the dagger or rapier which scale by default better with dex I make them "keen" rather quality. But it doesnt matter. I've tested on many enemy types, and i've also tested on players. A weapon that is Sacred, or Magic, or Flame art ALL of which are scaling from a level 9 stat all do more damage

Case example: A keen Dagger +12 stealth backstab on a Godrick soldier does 783 points of damage. A Sacred Dagger does 856. A Magic dagger does 822. A Flame art Dagger does 873. Again my int and fai are both 9. This is obviously broken. And YES I fully understand weakness and resistances of enemies, this was one example i tested it on many many other enemy types, with many many weapons.

As for screenshots i have no idea how to post pictures in here without uploading them to some site, which i'm not bothering with. you can test these yourself.

[Nauct]

Worth it to note that a weapon with split damage will be subject to flat damage reduction for each damage type. So if you have a weapon that does 3 different types of damage it's getting that reduction 3 times, where a pure physical weapon only gets it once.

Also you can buff a weapon that doesn't have split damage with grease or magic spells for even more damage

[Nauct]

Originally posted by Sir Lucient:

The weapons are +12

I've tested it with more then 20 weapons now (which are all +12)
Obviously weapons like the dagger or rapier which scale by default better with dex I make them "keen" rather quality. But it doesnt matter. I've tested on many enemy types, and i've also tested on players. A weapon that is Sacred, or Magic, or Flame art ALL of which are scaling from a level 9 stat all do more damage

Case example: A keen Dagger +12 stealth backstab on a Godrick soldier does 783 points of damage. A Sacred Dagger does 856. A Magic dagger does 822. A Flame art Dagger does 873. Again my int and fai are both 9. This is obviously broken. And YES I fully understand weakness and resistances of enemies, this was one example i tested it on many many other enemy types, with many many weapons.

As for screenshots i have no idea how to post pictures in here without uploading them to some site, which i'm not bothering with. you can test these yourself.

This is a bad test because daggers have extra critical, causing backstabs to do more damage

[mewlynx]

Split damage will always have a higher AR listed than what it realistically outputs. Split damage means that the enemy will resist more damage overall since it's resisting both physical and holy or what have you, so they try to compensate by inflating numbers.

[Sir Lucient]

The extra critical would be the same in all instances. How does that make it a bad example?

[Hoob]

Are you testing these by hitting enemies or looking at your damage on the character screen?
Because if its by hitting enemies different enemies have different resistances and most non physical damage goes through a lot of blocking enemies shields

[Timbermaw]

Originally posted by Sir Lucient:

The weapons are +12

I've tested it with more then 20 weapons now (which are all +12)
Obviously weapons like the dagger or rapier which scale by default better with dex I make them "keen" rather quality. But it doesnt matter. I've tested on many enemy types, and i've also tested on players. A weapon that is Sacred, or Magic, or Flame art ALL of which are scaling from a level 9 stat all do more damage

Case example: A keen Dagger +12 stealth backstab on a Godrick soldier does 783 points of damage. A Sacred Dagger does 856. A Magic dagger does 822. A Flame art Dagger does 873. Again my int and fai are both 9. This is obviously broken. And YES I fully understand weakness and resistances of enemies, this was one example i tested it on many many other enemy types, with many many weapons.

As for screenshots i have no idea how to post pictures in here without uploading them to some site, which i'm not bothering with. you can test these yourself.

Steam lets you take screenshots (with f12), upload them (to steam) and link them here, for example:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2780431630

Anyway, Critical hits are an interesting matter because it seems like they ignore or severely reduce defenses altogether, or at least it was that way in dark souls 3. A fire dagger was the optimal riposting weapon simply because it had higher combined damage than a physical dagger.

Anyway! try using them without backstabbing and check the difference I guess

[Sir Lucient]

Originally posted by Hoob:

Are you testing these by hitting enemies or looking at your damage on the character screen?
Because if its by hitting enemies different enemies have different resistances and most non physical damage goes through a lot of blocking enemies shields

Originally posted by Sir Lucient:

The weapons are +12

I've tested it with more then 20 weapons now (which are all +12)
Obviously weapons like the dagger or rapier which scale by default better with dex I make them "keen" rather quality. But it doesnt matter. I've tested on many enemy types, and i've also tested on players. A weapon that is Sacred, or Magic, or Flame art ALL of which are scaling from a level 9 stat all do more damage

Case example: A keen Dagger +12 stealth backstab on a Godrick soldier does 783 points of damage. A Sacred Dagger does 856. A Magic dagger does 822. A Flame art Dagger does 873. Again my int and fai are both 9. This is obviously broken. And YES I fully understand weakness and resistances of enemies, this was one example i tested it on many many other enemy types, with many many weapons.

As for screenshots i have no idea how to post pictures in here without uploading them to some site, which i'm not bothering with. you can test these yourself.

[Nauct]

Originally posted by Sir Lucient:

The extra critical would be the same in all instances. How does that make it a bad example?

Ok I read your post again. You argument here is that the keen (just physical) does less damage. These are normal enemies not resistant to anything in particular, you test on all eneimies in the game and I'm sure that the keen will actually be on par, yet you can buff it and make the damage even higher

[Hoob]

Originally posted by Sir Lucient:

And YES I fully understand weakness and resistances of enemies, this was one example i tested it on many many other enemy types, with many many weapons.

In this case should it not be assumed that many of the enemies and players in the game have less holy resistance? Seeing as there was just yesterday a weapon scaling patch?

If the number is higher on your "R Armament" stat after making the weapon sacred then it is clearly a scaling issue and probably needs to be patched

[Sir Lucient]

Originally posted by Nauct:

Originally posted by Sir Lucient:

The extra critical would be the same in all instances. How does that make it a bad example?

Ok I read your post again. You argument here is that the keen (just physical) does less damage. These are normal enemies not resistant to anything in particular, you test on all eneimies in the game and I'm sure that the keen will actually be on par, yet you can buff it and make the damage even higher

Fair enough. It just isn't scaling like things did in Dark souls 1 or 3. And the fact that a weapon getting a bonus from a level 9 attribute deals more base damage is pretty broken is my opinion.

[Nauct]

Originally posted by Sir Lucient:

Originally posted by Nauct:

Ok I read your post again. You argument here is that the keen (just physical) does less damage. These are normal enemies not resistant to anything in particular, you test on all eneimies in the game and I'm sure that the keen will actually be on par, yet you can buff it and make the damage even higher

Fair enough. It just isn't scaling like things did in Dark souls 1 or 3. And the fact that a weapon getting a bonus from a level 9 attribute deals more base damage is pretty broken is my opinion.

Yeah the upgrades are what make the biggest impact. I'm doing an SL1 run and my upgraded Claymore does so much damage even at level 1