Suggestion: Mimic tear should cost more to use

[Zixpk]

Edit 4--patch on 17/3/2022 lists "changed behaviour" to mimic, in addition to damage nerf. Health and cost are the same.

Edit 3--chosenxeno mentions that, at the end of the day, it's optional and it could prove invaluable for players who just want to explore/play offline. If mimic really can't be made into a more interesting, engaging mechanic, then at the very least it serves its purpose as a "difficulty slider" pretty well. Fair is fair, I say.

Edit 2--some suggestions from people in the thread ranging from least to most severe:

-have Mimic take up a fixed percentage of your HP rather than 660.

-have that percentage be 90.

-have mimic use half your flasks to summon

-have the healthpool of your mimic be set by you at sites of grace, by designating more flasks sacrificed for more mimic health.

Somewhere between the first two seems right--after all, the whole point of summons is to ease newer/less experienced players into the offline souls experience. To take away half your flasks seems way too severe to me.



Edit 1--clearly I went full stupid in my wording. Let me put it this way: Mimic is OP. I WANT it to be OP. But right now it costs literally nothing to use, and this has ramifications on the reward one feels when discovering any other summon afterwards. I want to brainstorm a solution to make the cost of mimic a LITTLE more more severe, but RETAIN how busted it ultimately is. Emphasis on a LITTLE. It takes, what, 660HP to summon? Make that more, or just make it use one flask outright at moment of summon. Everyone wants to be right--me included--but ultimately the "right" solution is somewhere in the middle. It's possible to keep mimic as the power trip/crutch tool, but by god it needs to have a little bit more of an upfront cost.

Yes, you can ignore mimic, and lo and behold--the game is great fun! I want to brainstorm with others to see if there's a way to integrate mimic into normal gameplay that doesn't immediately invalidate every other summon, thereby dampening the deep, monkey brain dopamine hit I'd normally get for picking up a new ghost or spirit.



My silly original post:
A more tangible cost imo--mimic tear is stupid OP but that's part of the fantasy of using it. If anything, make it cost more to use. Not gonna lie I have ♥♥♥♥ impulse control since hitting the end game, and find myself using mimic for every boss.


I should mention the point of this thread was to s h i t p o s t a little bit, but mainly to brainstorm ways to make the game more interesting to play, and within reason of patchability. You can settle for a boat with holes and a crappy rudder, or you can brainstorm ways to upgrade it to a yacht with a v8 engine.

Arguements aside, it seems a lot of people can settle on Mimic using a whole flask to summon. Some are even vouching for half of your flasks, but I worry this would destroy the power fantasy of literally doubling yourself.

[13R0KEN]

@chosenxeno
@Eguzky

Mimic tear just got nerfed lmao

[Zixpk]

Originally posted by Gray:

@chosenxeno
@Eguzky

Mimic tear just got nerfed lmao

Update just dropped? Away from computer rn

[Kain]

lool, indeed, they nerfed damage and 'changed behavior', I hope they didn't remove the ability to use items.

[Zixpk]

Yeah... I'm all for slight nerfs but what does 'changed behaviour' mean? Lmao, is it sentient?

[chosenxeno]

Originally posted by Zixpk:

Originally posted by Gray:

@chosenxeno
@Eguzky

Mimic tear just got nerfed lmao

Update just dropped? Away from computer rn

I made a Thread. I already finished the game. Sucks for noobs haha.

[Zixpk]

Also, there goes my post-game plans to abuse hoarfrost stomp to level everything to 99

[Kain]

Originally posted by chosenxeno:

Originally posted by Zixpk:

Update just dropped? Away from computer rn

I made a Thread. I already finished the game. Sucks for noobs haha.

My mimic will still be perfect in my eyes, even at 1 damage it would still be my buddy.

[Zixpk]

Originally posted by Kain:

Originally posted by chosenxeno:

I made a Thread. I already finished the game. Sucks for noobs haha.

My mimic will still be perfect in my eyes, even at 1 damage it would still be my buddy.

Wholesome and maidenpilled

[Calsetes]

Originally posted by Zixpk:

Originally posted by Gray:

tbh it should cost most of your hp and a couple sips of your flask
mimic is broken with the right setup

Maybe make the cost a greater percentage of health, sure. Right now the cost is negligible.

This depends on build. My mage? Almost her whole health pool - I have about 800 HP and that's with the Crimson Veil on. My big beefy strength character? She has... I forget how much, but an absurd amount of HP. She could summon a few mimics without needing to drink from her flask if it were even possible.

Making it be a flat percentage-based thing might be best, but I'm also tempted to make it above a certain HP threshold. "It takes 660 HP OR 80% of your HP pool, whichever is larger" or something, you know? Would leave the minimum cost there to make it kinda on-par with FP-based summons (I never bothered raising my initial FP amount much until I got Lhutel the Headless on my melee character), and would also balance out for high-HP characters.

But this also raises another question, then - should other summons also be reworked in this same manner? Should Lhutel, say, take up 104 FP OR 90% of your current FP pool over that amount? Should the wolves take up what, 33 FP or something, OR 30% of your total FP pool?

I'm curious if anyone tried testing the mimic out with weapons / skills / whatever that their character is not built for and seeing if the mimic has a set stat pool based on level or what. I know HP is tied to that, and FP is unlimited. Does giving the mimic a dex-based sword that you can't really use affect its damage output with it, or not? If not, then in theory the player could equip a loadout, summon the mimic, and then swap to their usual one. I've done that with a greatsword with bleed on it while I was rocking the Ancient Ruins one.

[Zixpk]

Originally posted by Calsetes:

Originally posted by Zixpk:

Maybe make the cost a greater percentage of health, sure. Right now the cost is negligible.

This depends on build. My mage? Almost her whole health pool - I have about 800 HP and that's with the Crimson Veil on. My big beefy strength character? She has... I forget how much, but an absurd amount of HP. She could summon a few mimics without needing to drink from her flask if it were even possible.

Making it be a flat percentage-based thing might be best, but I'm also tempted to make it above a certain HP threshold. "It takes 660 HP OR 80% of your HP pool, whichever is larger" or something, you know? Would leave the minimum cost there to make it kinda on-par with FP-based summons (I never bothered raising my initial FP amount much until I got Lhutel the Headless on my melee character), and would also balance out for high-HP characters.

But this also raises another question, then - should other summons also be reworked in this same manner? Should Lhutel, say, take up 104 FP OR 90% of your current FP pool over that amount? Should the wolves take up what, 33 FP or something, OR 30% of your total FP pool?

I'm curious if anyone tried testing the mimic out with weapons / skills / whatever that their character is not built for and seeing if the mimic has a set stat pool based on level or what. I know HP is tied to that, and FP is unlimited. Does giving the mimic a dex-based sword that you can't really use affect its damage output with it, or not? If not, then in theory the player could equip a loadout, summon the mimic, and then swap to their usual one. I've done that with a greatsword with bleed on it while I was rocking the Ancient Ruins one.

Can't really hypothesize with you as I haven't really experimented with it (especially now that it's nerfed) but what I will say is that being able to swap to different weapons/entire different play styles after mimic summon is one of the more unique ways to use it. Synergy with yourself is an interesting mechanic, intentional or not.

[Calsetes]

Originally posted by Zixpk:

Can't really hypothesize with you as I haven't really experimented with it (especially now that it's nerfed) but what I will say is that being able to swap to different weapons/entire different play styles after mimic summon is one of the more unique ways to use it. Synergy with yourself is an interesting mechanic, intentional or not.

Hahaha, thanks. It was part of my experimentation on some bosses that gave me trouble. "What if we both used bleed? What if we both used freeze, and I purged it with a flaming pot? What if they use freeze, and I use my regular sword for the bonus damage while frostbitten?"

The last few bosses though, I hit a point where it was mainly "okay, screw swapping stuff, come out and we'll just Energy Wave this dude into the ground."

[Zixpk]

Originally posted by Calsetes:

Originally posted by Zixpk:

Can't really hypothesize with you as I haven't really experimented with it (especially now that it's nerfed) but what I will say is that being able to swap to different weapons/entire different play styles after mimic summon is one of the more unique ways to use it. Synergy with yourself is an interesting mechanic, intentional or not.

Hahaha, thanks. It was part of my experimentation on some bosses that gave me trouble. "What if we both used bleed? What if we both used freeze, and I purged it with a flaming pot? What if they use freeze, and I use my regular sword for the bonus damage while frostbitten?"

The last few bosses though, I hit a point where it was mainly "okay, screw swapping stuff, come out and we'll just Energy Wave this dude into the ground."

You should still be able to "coordinate" stunlocks and aggros with the mimic, I just wouldn't expect the same damage output with patch 1.0.3. Potentially different spellcasting behavior too, but I personally play all melee so I haven't tested that.

[Calsetes]

Originally posted by Zixpk:

Originally posted by Calsetes:

Hahaha, thanks. It was part of my experimentation on some bosses that gave me trouble. "What if we both used bleed? What if we both used freeze, and I purged it with a flaming pot? What if they use freeze, and I use my regular sword for the bonus damage while frostbitten?"

The last few bosses though, I hit a point where it was mainly "okay, screw swapping stuff, come out and we'll just Energy Wave this dude into the ground."

You should still be able to "coordinate" stunlocks and aggros with the mimic, I just wouldn't expect the same damage output with patch 1.0.3. Potentially different spellcasting behavior too, but I personally play all melee so I haven't tested that.

I plan on seeing how it fares post-patch when I continue my mage run. Right now, though, there's Chaos what needs killin'.

[supergorilla]

I think if you use Mimic Tear, you should be forced online, Malcom Reynolds should automatically invade you, teleport you to 9999,99999, kill you, undress you, beat you up in real life and your family name be sullied for not making me feel like a good gamer by proxy.

[QQ]

Originally posted by Zixpk:

Edit 2--some suggestions from people in the thread ranging from least to most severe:

-have Mimic take up a fixed percentage of your HP rather than 660.

-have that percentage be 90.

-have mimic use half your flasks to summon

-have the healthpool of your mimic be set by you at sites of grace, by designating more flasks sacrificed for more mimic health.
.

Hahahahahaha, no....

I really hope they nerf irl food and make everything unsalted, tasteless and fat free also because i feel good food is op and i want others to suffer from tasteless food because i cant have better food so i demand with my entitlement to force it onto others.