ELDEN RING

ELDEN RING

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Does ER have the worst designed bosses of all Souls-like games so far?
Discuss.
最近の変更はJanthisが行いました; 2022年3月14日 23時18分
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no, Dark souls 2 has the worst boss designs in all souls games
I think Elden Ring is just pushing what the souls system is capable of. Since devs didn't give players more freedom in the things they can do, the only way they could make the game difficult for their more experienced base is to just make enemies more relentless and full of trap telegraphs. Until Fromsoft give players more freedom in gameplay, you're only going to see more of this in future titles, the wait and r1 gameplay against enemies. Going from the souls series to nioh then back to elden ring really shows how stale the souls gameplay has become in many ways because of this. Nioh is hard because of difficult bosses as well as the integration of player skill in the system, elden ring is all about the bosses and finding their tiny attack windows.
This game is extremely hit or miss with its bosses. I'm not even going to talk about the gank bosses in this game, as none of them had any thought put into them at all so far. Radahn gets complained about to death and his fight is hard to call a success, but I think in retrospect I like that they at least tried something new with the raid boss thing. Rykard is better than Yhorm imo, but his fight is basically "stun luck me to death or I'll rain skulls down and make your life hell," and the camera gave me so many issues.

I think every other major boss I've liked a lot, though. Most of them had some aspect to them that made them stand out, whether it be the light weapons Margit/Margot have, Mohg's blood flame magic, Rennala's enchanting arena and visuals, Melania's crazy aggression and sheer difficulty. I haven't done Maliketh or any of the last few bosses, but I've heard they're pretty good.
Can you stop cope posting?
Puchard の投稿を引用:
The only thing that is questionable are the 2v1 fights because they're not really thought out at all. Every other bosses are pretty well designed. They're gimmicky, and it takes some time to figure out the blind spots. However at the end of the day, the biggest issue is people not looking for other ways to win. Maintain spacing goes a long way.
At least all the double boss fights have each boss use a different weapon with different moves
Donoghu 2022年3月14日 16時32分 
The main problem that makes ER Bosses seem worse for some, but not every one than DS2 comes from how everyone is able (or not) to cope and digest their bad experience.

In terms of implementation, ER is kinda weak than any DS due to the nature of how lots of its design was made out of the same piece of environment. This makes some bosses too easy, some alright, but forgettable and some other... simply stupidly hard for no reason other than because of the additive element from its environment, stats, attack patterns, etc.
ER reuse a lot of its content with little variation. Many dungeon's bosses room are almost identical with a few decorative variation like 1 or 2 sunbeam hole in the ceiling, with or without pillars (broken or not), but all have the same rectangular room with the fog door on 1 side, a straight wall on both longer side and a body-filled-root wall on the other side. More than half of the bosses are fought in that exact environment and that's excluding the fact that there's usually 3 to 4 variations of the exact same boss with different element (light, fire, lightning or rot for the most part), defense, numbers and some attacks patterns (usually determined by the weapon welded by the boss)

Lots of bosses' difficulties in ER comes from 1 single point: the boss' room size.
For example, the Fallingstar Beast in the Sellia Crystal Tunnel and Elemer of the Briar in The Shaded Castle are 2 bosses that can be seen as good bosses in terms of difficulty/challenges, but also cheap bosses in terms of how they can easily overtake anyone who doesn't have frame-perfect accuracy in their evasion and distance as both those bosses has irregular timing, long-enough range to hit 80% of the boss' room with their regular attack, can survive a beating (hard to stag/stun) and they both hit like trucks on top of making short work of even the highly upgraded tank summons.

Those are the kind of bosses that some might love while some might utterly hate above any other bosses in both ER and Souls. After all, some people may have beaten those out of sheer luck on the first try or out of skills and they might not even know the hardship some others had to face to beat them.

DS 2, as a common example of how people find some of its bosses as the worse, it comes to how the bosses mostly exploit their affinity which, for the most part, are unreachable for the player and that's also includes how their environment is made to empower that affinity which can make it harder for the player. Things like having the boss with more attacks in its combos how many times a player at that point should be able to either blow or roll out from so that its force player to either summon another player (or NPC) or getting perfect timing while focusing on keeping a distance. Or how some are 2 bosses at once with, both, their own style that, if mixed together onto 1 single target (the player), feel like cheating. ER has multiple-bosses moments, but they are mitigated by the ability to summon or having a room that, in most case, allow the player to single-out one of the 2 bosses away from the other to fight it mano-a-mano. (Either that, or you can use Torrent which makes lots of fight easier and more forgivable.)

In ER, if you're having an hard time with a boss, you can skip it for the most part and come back later while being 2x-3x stronger which then make that boss far more easier than ever. In DS2, you might have 1, 2 or even 3 other path you could take, but you usually have to tough it out, sometimes, without the ability to become 2x-3x stronger without spending dozen of hours at farming souls and maybe drops.

People who played (and maybe have beaten) DS2 even though they hated some of its bosses from all their heart will usually remember those as the worse. People who played ER and hate how a boss is cheaply designed (be its attacks, environment, patterns, etc.) will usually not remember the boss as cheap if he or she comes back later once buffed even further. Those who, on the contrary, tough it out like in DS2 will find the bosses in ER a lot worse than DS2 simple because some bosses are truly badly designed for their environment which create a cheap feeling of cheat-boss.
最近の変更はDonoghuが行いました; 2022年3月14日 16時36分
Fubous の投稿を引用:
no, dark souls 2 takes that by a mile
Like if you faught Rennala and thought "oh wow this boss is lame"

i think you need to get help.
Miro Fox の投稿を引用:
Like if you faught Rennala and thought "oh wow this boss is lame"

i think you need to get help.

Rennala was nice, so were a few others. I recently had a fight with an assassin-type (The Ringleader Evergaol I think) that despite her obviously inflated stats and damage, felt like an actual duel of skill. I wish the game had more of those and less "giant beast flailing around like a toddler having a temper tantrum in a small arena" types.
Johnny_B_80 の投稿を引用:
Miro Fox の投稿を引用:
Like if you faught Rennala and thought "oh wow this boss is lame"

i think you need to get help.

Rennala was nice, so were a few others. I recently had a fight with an assassin-type (The Ringleader Evergaol I think) that despite her obviously inflated stats and damage, felt like an actual duel of skill. I wish the game had more of those and less "giant beast flailing around like a toddler having a temper tantrum in a small arena" types.

to each their own Ig, I actually love the big beast onslaught bosses. HATED the firegiant, but hes still cool.
Donoghu の投稿を引用:
Massive wall of text.

Exactly, well put. Most of the Elden Ring fights so far have had nothing but cheap cheese moveset bosses. The only boss that has been a call back to DS2 for me is the Grafted Scion (tutorial boss), nothing it does is cheesy and can be defeated if you keep a close eye on what it is telegraphing.
Noeat 2022年3月14日 16時58分 
Pizza_Force の投稿を引用:
I think Elden Ring is just pushing what the souls system is capable of. Since devs didn't give players more freedom in the things they can do, the only way they could make the game difficult for their more experienced base is to just make enemies more relentless and full of trap telegraphs. Until Fromsoft give players more freedom in gameplay, you're only going to see more of this in future titles, the wait and r1 gameplay against enemies. Going from the souls series to nioh then back to elden ring really shows how stale the souls gameplay has become in many ways because of this. Nioh is hard because of difficult bosses as well as the integration of player skill in the system, elden ring is all about the bosses and finding their tiny attack windows.
what exactly u mean by "more freedom"?
I don't recall DS2 having a 4-balls-sent-2-by-2-that-oneshot-into-lunge-with-delayed-shockwave-into-flying-piroette-into-crash-game
VenereDemonica の投稿を引用:
I don't recall DS2 having a 4-balls-sent-2-by-2-that-oneshot-into-lunge-with-delayed-shockwave-into-flying-piroette-into-crash-game
did you even play dark souls two?

think thats like boss Number one. XD
Miro Fox の投稿を引用:
VenereDemonica の投稿を引用:
I don't recall DS2 having a 4-balls-sent-2-by-2-that-oneshot-into-lunge-with-delayed-shockwave-into-flying-piroette-into-crash-game
did you even play dark souls two?

think thats like boss Number one. XD
Yes, I played it quite a bit.
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投稿日: 2022年3月14日 14時33分
投稿数: 316