It's insane how many bull*hit moves they gave bosses in this game

[DarkWolf]

Undodgeable attacks, like the Grafted Scion's whirlwind attack; you can dodge the first spin, then you get staggered and die.
Super drawn-out attacks that wait until your i-frames run out and hit you, and you can't do anything about it (Margit).
Jumping attacks that home after you through the air; you roll away from a jumping enemy, they change direction in the air, land on you and you die.
Attacks that only happens when you heal, basically making healing useless, since you if you use it, you die.
AoE attacks that have too large radiuses to escape; i.e. Godskin Apostle. If he starts it when you're in melee range (aka. always) you die.
Attacks that are too fast to dodge, or attacks that do damage after you think they do (Godskin Apostle's stab/sweep, Crucible Knight's stomp attack).

[Seizure Storm]

we still talking about margit out here huh

[Funpire]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 𒆜DarkWolf𒀖:

Undodgeable attacks, like the Grafted Scion's whirlwind attack; you can dodge the first spin, then you get staggered and die.
Super drawn-out attacks that wait until your i-frames run out and hit you, and you can't do anything about it (Margit).
Jumping attacks that home after you through the air; you roll away from a jumping enemy, they change direction in the air, land on you and you die.
Attacks that only happens when you heal, basically making healing useless, since you if you use it, you die.
AoE attacks that have too large radiuses to escape; i.e. Godskin Apostle. If he starts it when you're in melee range (aka. always) you die.
Attacks that are too fast to dodge, or attacks that do damage after you think they do (Godskin Apostle's stab/sweep, Crucible Knight's stomp attack).

Wait... You got hit by the Godskin Apostle? Really...? How?

[Lahoo Eckbert]

Yeah. Literally every boss(including nearly all regular enemies) have distance closers, heal punish and delayed attacks. Not saying it is a bad thing, I think it is necessary to support the difficulty curve of the franchise but sometimes it just feels too much BS to deal with.

[AILAD]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 𒆜DarkWolf𒀖:

Undodgeable attacks, like the Grafted Scion's whirlwind attack; you can dodge the first spin, then you get staggered and die.
Super drawn-out attacks that wait until your i-frames run out and hit you, and you can't do anything about it (Margit).
Jumping attacks that home after you through the air; you roll away from a jumping enemy, they change direction in the air, land on you and you die.
Attacks that only happens when you heal, basically making healing useless, since you if you use it, you die.
AoE attacks that have too large radiuses to escape; i.e. Godskin Apostle. If he starts it when you're in melee range (aka. always) you die.
Attacks that are too fast to dodge, or attacks that do damage after you think they do (Godskin Apostle's stab/sweep, Crucible Knight's stomp attack).

You can watch videos of people no-hitting bosses to see how to dodge all these attacks.

[mldb88]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Funpire:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 𒆜DarkWolf𒀖:

Undodgeable attacks, like the Grafted Scion's whirlwind attack; you can dodge the first spin, then you get staggered and die.
Super drawn-out attacks that wait until your i-frames run out and hit you, and you can't do anything about it (Margit).
Jumping attacks that home after you through the air; you roll away from a jumping enemy, they change direction in the air, land on you and you die.
Attacks that only happens when you heal, basically making healing useless, since you if you use it, you die.
AoE attacks that have too large radiuses to escape; i.e. Godskin Apostle. If he starts it when you're in melee range (aka. always) you die.
Attacks that are too fast to dodge, or attacks that do damage after you think they do (Godskin Apostle's stab/sweep, Crucible Knight's stomp attack).

Wait... You got hit by the Godskin Apostle? Really...? How?

I mean, I got hit by him a few times when I fought him, more out of never having seen the attack patterns before and just playing sloppy. Still got him first go but I can see how some attacks might throw someone off going in blind.

[Senpai so Ecchi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 𒆜DarkWolf𒀖:

Grafted Scions have no openings. I've tried for hours to kill them, and they continually attack until I die. No openings for attacking, no openings for healing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHS39xxXkiM

here is a video of some dude killing grafted scion in the tutorial area without getting hit.
melee only, no shield.

btw, easiest time to heal is when you bait his multi hit attack. at the end of that he will always do a jump attack (you can avoid all attacks by just walking backwards). heal up as soon as he lands his jump. the recovery animation on that move is long enough to allow healing.

[GoreTiger]

My dive into the fandom of dark souls has been wild. They're like rabid dogs who attack anyone with the slightest critique of their game. If you want DS fanboys to worship you, just make a big spammy boss and they'll literally kiss your feet claiming you made the best thing ever.
So far not much in this game has been a big challenge, Most bosses just spam over and over and over. 90% of the time you just dodge, or roll. The 'trick' is noticing when the boss's spam takes that half second break so you can get 1 hit in and then go back to dodging for 5 more minute. They're just long,drawn out fights and that's mostly it.
Witcher 3 had more exciting boss fights. God of war had more exciting boss fights. DS bossfights are just a competition between the boss spamming and the player spamming roll until one of them gets tired.
So far the hardest thing about this game has been fighting the stutter lol

[Belbe's Phyrexian Toy Collection]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 𒆜DarkWolf𒀖:

Undodgeable attacks, like the Grafted Scion's whirlwind attack; you can dodge the first spin, then you get staggered and die.
Super drawn-out attacks that wait until your i-frames run out and hit you, and you can't do anything about it (Margit).
Jumping attacks that home after you through the air; you roll away from a jumping enemy, they change direction in the air, land on you and you die.
Attacks that only happens when you heal, basically making healing useless, since you if you use it, you die.
AoE attacks that have too large radiuses to escape; i.e. Godskin Apostle. If he starts it when you're in melee range (aka. always) you die.
Attacks that are too fast to dodge, or attacks that do damage after you think they do (Godskin Apostle's stab/sweep, Crucible Knight's stomp attack).

the attacks can be avoided by rolling, and also by spacing... consider pressing B

[Buntkreuz]

We had the same debate.
My personal frustration is that this game is not at all like Dark Souls.
The spirit of Dark Souls is to learn enemy movement and attack patterns.
The spirit of Dark Souls is to die from your mistakes.
I died more to bugs and design problems in Elden Ring than my own faults.
Like the horse being available right from the start of Radhan, but you instantly jump off again for no apparent reason.
Or at the Aqueduct close to the Twin Brother you can use your horse but as soon as you start to jump at the ledge to get to the Knight your horse disappears, rooting you in the air letting you fall down.
I have tons of situations like that with wonky movement and odd object/environment collision.
Well, or hits not properly connecting OR connecting when they shouldnt.


Now to my personal frustration:
Enemies tend to unpack sudden attack moves they never used before.
Example:
I fight the gargoyles, im good at nearly killing the first one off to focus on the second, suddenly the first one unloads an attack pattern he didnt use in the previous 10 fights.

Another example:
The Clawbirds in Stormveil.
First encounters, they are annoying and dangerous, but pretty much rely on melee attacks with their claws.
Reaching the giant close to the boss encounter, reveils they also have fire attacks.
Ok so far, they are possibly another type of clawbird.
But returning to the first ones (for example the one attacking on a rooftop) reveils, they ALL have the flame attacks.
Just that in the first 20 fights none of them ever used that attack pattern at all, but now they do.
I have to assume its gamelogic, that unlocks attack patterns in certain situations.
LIke me having to reach the fire clawbirds to unlock that attack pattern for all the others.

Anyone noticed that as soon as a Boss having like a fraction of health left they sometimes become unhittable and start spamming attacks much faster?
I had 6 boss fights with a moment where i only had to destroy the last 100 hp of the boss with maybe one good attack hitting, but although my hits went visibly through the enemy, they didnt count.
And that boss then suddenly spammed attacks left and right without a pause.
Its stupid and i assume its a system in the background causing it.
Its too frequently happening to be a subjective feeling.



I have like a dozen of these examples, where i learn the attack patterns of a boss or enemy by fighting them at least a dozen times or more.
But then in crucial moments they suddenly reveal that they have at least one, sometimes 2 or 3 more attack patterns that are otherwise never shown.


Regarding undodgeable attacks, i got annoyed the hell out of enemies like Millicent with their weapons where they fly like 3 seconds attacking all around them in an orb shape, moving towards you and you cant evade these attacks by rolling.
You cant evade sideways, because these attacks are homing into you.
You cant evade away, because the attacks follow you faster.
You cant evade towards, because once the i-frames are over the attack is still going on and will hit you, dodging towards just gets the hit faster to you.

There are many enemies with undodgable attacks like that and its really annoying.



I think the problem lays with Bloodborne.
A good game, but it caused From Software to overuse the enemy design from Bloodborne, trying to infuse it into Dark Souls.
Just that the Souls Games ever were much slower paced.
Play Demons Souls and you get the very essence of what these games are about.
Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring got too much from Bloodborne and it doesnt fit well.
Its freaking cool to watch, but its also frustrating because you realize quite fast that some game mechanics arent made for the enemy design of Bloodborne.
Now go play Dark Souls 1 and you will find it to be much slower paced, but in a good way.
Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring are as if they thought to increase movement speed of all enemies by 5 and give every weapon a "swing wild and hit everything" weapon art.
Again, its kinda cool, but also super stupid when it meets with the game mechanics that just cant cope with it.

In Elden Ring i have found some enemies with attacks that leave you a fraction of a second to dodge.
Thats not the spirit of Dark Souls, and never was.
Its cheap gamedesign, just like half the dungeons get recycled and 90% of the enemies, weapons, spells and NPCs are recycled from previous games.
Lazy as hell.
I was one of the first hundred people to play Demons Souls Asia Version when it released and played every Souls Game.
But this is like they took the worst parts of the Souls Games and the best parts of other games to melt them together.
I was kind of surprised to find game design from Assassins Creed and Breath of the Wild everywhere filled with recycled content.

[midori]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Senpai so Ecchi:

Welcome to "Dark Souls".
A Game where nobody is holding your hand and you have to figure things out on your own. (or watch a guide)

First things first, every move in this game is dodgeable. It is just a matter of learning.
Margit's Drawn-out attack can be dodged. Just start counting the seconds until the hit connects (hold block). Next time he does this move, count in your head and dodge.

Yes, there are certain moves that are designed to punish "panic healing".
It is much safer to heal after you dodged a big attack/attack sequence and the boss is in his recovery state.

godskin apostle aoe you can outrun if you notice his animation, thats enough time to sprint out of the aoe. (the weapon starts flaming and he swings it above his head)

if a boss is hyper aggressive consider using a shield and try to observe his moves the first few times you fight him.

Just keep at it, eventually you learn each boss.
And if you just cant be bothered. you can always use spirits or summon other players to help.

nah dark souls was fun dude

[socially ept outcel]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von CMDR Shepard's Favorite Thot:

the attacks can be avoided by rolling, and also by spacing... consider pressing B

Many attack combos from later game bosses can't be dodged.

Anyway the problem with the approach From has taken IMO, is that they have almost entirely removed any kind of reactive ability as the deciding factor in the difficult fights... you win through memorising which few attacks are always punishable, and exact timing for attacks with no tells & instant animations, and which attacks have variable windup so you can block instead of playing the luck game of dodging.... or otherwise you use busted builds and cheese it... it's no longer about seeing an attack and dodging it. Anyway, this kind of gameplay is boring and tedious.

[Crazymage]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 𒆜DarkWolf𒀖:

Undodgeable attacks, like the Grafted Scion's whirlwind attack; you can dodge the first spin, then you get staggered and die.
Super drawn-out attacks that wait until your i-frames run out and hit you, and you can't do anything about it (Margit).
Jumping attacks that home after you through the air; you roll away from a jumping enemy, they change direction in the air, land on you and you die.
Attacks that only happens when you heal, basically making healing useless, since you if you use it, you die.
AoE attacks that have too large radiuses to escape; i.e. Godskin Apostle. If he starts it when you're in melee range (aka. always) you die.
Attacks that are too fast to dodge, or attacks that do damage after you think they do (Godskin Apostle's stab/sweep, Crucible Knight's stomp attack).

bruh grafted scion actually beat you???? pfffffffffffffffffffttttttttttttt

[Belbe's Phyrexian Toy Collection]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von arekks:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von CMDR Shepard's Favorite Thot:

the attacks can be avoided by rolling, and also by spacing... consider pressing B

Many attack combos from later game bosses can't be dodged.

Anyway the problem with the approach From has taken IMO, is that they have almost entirely removed any kind of reactive ability as the deciding factor in the difficult fights... you win through memorising which few attacks are always punishable, and exact timing for attacks with no tells & instant animations, and which attacks have variable windup so you can block instead of playing the luck game of dodging.... or otherwise you use busted builds and cheese it... it's no longer about seeing an attack and dodging it. Anyway, this kind of gameplay is boring and tedious.

patently untrue; I have not run into attacks from late game bosses I cannot roll or otherwise avoid in my 3 playthroughs. the only "exception" is Mohg's P2 transition move and that is avoidable.

[Monk]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von CMDR Shepard's Favorite Thot:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von arekks:

Many attack combos from later game bosses can't be dodged.

Anyway the problem with the approach From has taken IMO, is that they have almost entirely removed any kind of reactive ability as the deciding factor in the difficult fights... you win through memorising which few attacks are always punishable, and exact timing for attacks with no tells & instant animations, and which attacks have variable windup so you can block instead of playing the luck game of dodging.... or otherwise you use busted builds and cheese it... it's no longer about seeing an attack and dodging it. Anyway, this kind of gameplay is boring and tedious.

patently untrue; I have not run into attacks from late game bosses I cannot roll or otherwise avoid in my 3 playthroughs. the only "exception" is Mohg's P2 transition move and that is avoidable.

I believe I have stumbled accross 2 items to help me deal with him/that.

There are no unavoidable attacks, if you are good enough us, another matter, I sure as hell am not, but, once you beat a boss, if you look online you can find videos already of people making them look easy.

[Humpenstilzchen]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 𒆜DarkWolf𒀖:

Undodgeable attacks, like the Grafted Scion's whirlwind attack; you can dodge the first spin, then you get staggered and die.

Wait until you fight Royal Revenant. This thing is like Grafted Scion on cocain.

But yea I agree some bosses are a bit ridiculous.