Oh no.. magic is OP ... not AT ALL!!!

[nazgull2k1]

So sick of hearing you white knight whiners immediately start crying about how "Oh I saw a video.. a guy with a 2 hander was doing 1k damage a swing! Its FINE.. THere's not much better!"

Meanwhile... my man Iron Pineapple just put out a video with him killing radahan in FOUR SECONDS.


FOUR SECONDS


FOUR.

FOUR )(#*$ING SECONDS.

He never moves.

He then goes on to showcase how absolutely disgustingly broken magic REALLY is.. and now I have firm statistical data that I can show and say, without hesitation. STFU. Magic is OP. Get over it.

If you're using melee, you're a scrub.

Git Gud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCu8PBoj-Ks

[Sgt. Flaw]

I imagine just getting to Radahan with that min/max deserves you the right to one shot him. This won't work on all enemies/bosses.

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by Eventide:

Originally posted by 変人:

So bosses just never aggro to mages? somehow caster ashes are tankier?

As I also said melee builds can summon ashes and stunlock bosses, does that make melee OP to you? I mean, you literally can't take damage when the boss is just flinching in a corner.

This is what I never understand about these people, they act like because casters are ranged suddenly we're *completely* safe from all damage. Or they act like because an ash was summoned and has aggro suddenly it'll never change. We may be ranged but that doesn't mean suddenly nothing ever bothers to come for us. Every single boss I've found in the game so far has at least one gap closer where they can basically fly across the arena to kill me in the middle of a cast. Plus this is assuming it's one of few arenas that is actually large enough for me to be far away.

The people complaining that we're able to out range things obviously haven't ever tried a magic build. Generally I find that you're safer close up against bosses in melee than being ranged.

Melee players are dealing with those same attacks, only they are point black and have a fraction of the time to react to those same attacks that you are talking about, as well as dozens of attacks you don't have to worry about at all.

[Kerrack]

The real OP build was the friends we made along the way.

[Dournsoul]

I like watching kamehameha mages fight Malenia and then laugh as they get smeared across the floor. Good luck fighting anything that doesn't sit still and take it.

[文字化け]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Originally posted by 変人:

So bosses just never aggro to mages? somehow caster ashes are tankier?

As I also said melee builds can summon ashes and stunlock bosses, does that make melee OP to you? I mean, you literally can't take damage when the boss is just flinching in a corner.

Did you even play the game? Yes, mages can take aggro, but they are on the other side of the screen so they have far more time to react. They are on the other side of the screen so they are not taking hits from the back swings of attacks meant for the spirit. Then they can just stop attacking when they catch aggro and focus on running away until the spirit takes aggro. And AGAIN, if the boss has no poise, a int build can just as easily stunlock the boss.

Anymore questions you would like me to answer for a 3rd time?

You're comparing suboptimal mage play with optimal melee play? cool, cool.

Mages are OP if you play suboptimal, and the boss is small and lacks poise, and the arena is large, and your ash is somehow tankier than everyone elses. Melee can't game aggro by playing suboptimally either, apparently. Cool, cool, got it, you're so dead set on MaGeS oP that you can't help but try and stack the odds

[Scadouge]

Its been since demon souls nothing new

[Eventide]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Originally posted by Eventide:

This is what I never understand about these people, they act like because casters are ranged suddenly we're *completely* safe from all damage. Or they act like because an ash was summoned and has aggro suddenly it'll never change. We may be ranged but that doesn't mean suddenly nothing ever bothers to come for us. Every single boss I've found in the game so far has at least one gap closer where they can basically fly across the arena to kill me in the middle of a cast. Plus this is assuming it's one of few arenas that is actually large enough for me to be far away.

The people complaining that we're able to out range things obviously haven't ever tried a magic build. Generally I find that you're safer close up against bosses in melee than being ranged.

Melee players are dealing with those same attacks, only they are point black and have a fraction of the time to react to those same attacks that you are talking about, as well as dozens of attacks you don't have to worry about at all.

Only you seem to act like different people experience entirely different things in the game. I know melee players are dealing with those same attacks. The reason I said generally I find that you're safer close up is because a lot of the larger enemies actually will flat out miss you if you're close to them. Or they can't use certain hard hitting attacks. As an example, those giant archers? Get close to them and they practically can't hit you at all. A lot of bosses are that size or larger that their swings actually miss you because of their arm length.

Also, while there are attacks you don't have to worry about because of your range, there are others I have to worry about because of my range. What exactly is your point? You seriously act like enemies are PURELY melee at all possible times throughout the entirety of the game.. Or like they don't have gap closers that can launch them from one side of the area to mine in about 1 second while I'm trapped in a cast animation.

You will not win your idiotic argument because it's literally not based on anything but you like "MAGIC OP!" even though it's extremely obvious that you haven't ever even bothered to try it whatsoever. Hilariously though a caster still does melee because we're forced into it. So odds are casters are likely better at melee than you if they had the stats to back it up.

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by 変人:

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Did you even play the game? Yes, mages can take aggro, but they are on the other side of the screen so they have far more time to react. They are on the other side of the screen so they are not taking hits from the back swings of attacks meant for the spirit. Then they can just stop attacking when they catch aggro and focus on running away until the spirit takes aggro. And AGAIN, if the boss has no poise, a int build can just as easily stunlock the boss.

Anymore questions you would like me to answer for a 3rd time?

You're comparing suboptimal mage play with optimal melee play? cool, cool.

Mages are OP if you play suboptimal, and the boss is small and lacks poise, and the arena is large, and your ash is somehow tankier than everyone elses. Melee can't game aggro by playing suboptimally either, apparently. Cool, cool, got it, you're so dead set on MaGeS oP that you can't help but try and stack the odds

So instead of actually reading my posts, you are making up arguments and trying to shove them in my mouth instead. LOL

Mages are OP because they get the best of all worlds.

Spacing: Mages can attack from range. That makes them safer and gives them more time to react. Melee-only users have to be close to even attack. That puts them in danger that mages don't deal with. Melee users used to be able to counter this with shields, but in ER, chip damage, blocking stamina usage, status build up on blocking are all huge.

Damage: Mages can nuke bosses in 4 seconds. Melee players risk trading hits if the land more than one hit on a boss with poise. Against a enemy without poise a mage can use something like Moonveil or the Dark Moon Greatsword to just as easily stun lock the boss, not to mention the spells that make magical sword blades.

Snipers: Melee players will often have to try running through a camp and aggroing an entire camp of enemies to get to a sniper on a ridge about the camp. Meanwhile a mage can just lock on and blast the sniper.

Hardened Enemies: If a melee user is using something like a sword, they are screwed against something like the Fully Grown Beast Falling Star Beast. They would have to try to find a suitable blunt weapon, try to find upgrade materials, then upgrade it all the way to get it on par with their sword. Meanwhile, and mage can just nuke it.

Flying enemies: 'nuff said.

[Eventide]

Originally posted by Scadouge:

Its been since demon souls nothing new

You people obviously haven't played magic in any of the Souls games.. Demon Souls it was decent. Dark Souls it was pretty powerful, but again required a specific set up. Dark Souls 2 absolutely destroyed magic with the very limited uses per rest. Dark Souls 3 made it fairly decent again, but once again only a handful of spells were actually good for both sorceries and miracles. Now on Elden it's quite a lot better, but still similar to Dark Souls 3 in the way only a handful are good. It's always to the point that casters have to fall back to using typically a mace because it has decent stats for us.

Please actually try to use magic in the other games before you comment..

[Casval Zem Daikun]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Spacing: Mages can attack from range.

This is really worthless when bosses can easily close gaps. Or have attacks with more range.

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Damage: Mages can nuke bosses in 4 seconds.

One ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ running a RTSR setup is not exemplary of an entire method of play. Sorceries have their problems too.

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Snipers: Melee players will often have to try running through a camp and aggroing an entire camp of enemies to get to a sniper on a ridge about the camp. Meanwhile a mage can just lock on and blast the sniper.

I feel like this is an example of a specific camp and most sorceries just don't have that kind of range.

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Hardened Enemies: If a melee user is using something like a sword, they are screwed against something like the Fully Grown Beast Falling Star Beast. They would have to try to find a suitable blunt weapon, try to find upgrade materials, then upgrade it all the way to get it on par with their sword. Meanwhile, and mage can just nuke it.

Yea this ain't true either.
I'd really like a citation on "just nuke it" that isn't the meme RTSR video.

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Flying enemies: 'nuff said.

Missile speed exists.

[Eventide]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Originally posted by 変人:

You're comparing suboptimal mage play with optimal melee play? cool, cool.

Mages are OP if you play suboptimal, and the boss is small and lacks poise, and the arena is large, and your ash is somehow tankier than everyone elses. Melee can't game aggro by playing suboptimally either, apparently. Cool, cool, got it, you're so dead set on MaGeS oP that you can't help but try and stack the odds

So instead of actually reading my posts, you are making up arguments and trying to shove them in my mouth instead. LOL

Mages are OP because they get the best of all worlds.

Spacing: Mages can attack from range. That makes them safer and gives them more time to react. Melee-only users have to be close to even attack. That puts them in danger that mages don't deal with. Melee users used to be able to counter this with shields, but in ER, chip damage, blocking stamina usage, status build up on blocking are all huge.

Damage: Mages can nuke bosses in 4 seconds. Melee players risk trading hits if the land more than one hit on a boss with poise. Against a enemy without poise a mage can use something like Moonveil or the Dark Moon Greatsword to just as easily stun lock the boss, not to mention the spells that make magical sword blades.

Snipers: Melee players will often have to try running through a camp and aggroing an entire camp of enemies to get to a sniper on a ridge about the camp. Meanwhile a mage can just lock on and blast the sniper.

Hardened Enemies: If a melee user is using something like a sword, they are screwed against something like the Fully Grown Beast Falling Star Beast. They would have to try to find a suitable blunt weapon, try to find upgrade materials, then upgrade it all the way to get it on par with their sword. Meanwhile, and mage can just nuke it.

Flying enemies: 'nuff said.

Aside from you, nobody has just made up anything. You flat out refuse to see anything outside of your very limited view. You're just here like "ME MELEE! YOU RANGED! YOU BETTER!" that's all you can seem to ever provide. Acting like because we're ranged somehow we just never get touched *ever*.

Also hilarious how you try to say hardened enemies like we don't have that problem.. a vast majority of enemies have magic resistance.. even a lot of bosses do. Then you try to make it out like it's so hard to find a good blunt weapon for a melee user.. I have 4 I could pick from just as a caster that hasn't even focused on finding melee weapons.. If I was str I'd have at least 4 more already. If I was dex I'd have like 2 more.. A good melee player wouldn't ONLY have a good sword. They'd also get a good blunt weapon. They'd even likely have a good one of each.. strike, slash, pierce, and standard. Just so they can exploit vulnerabilities as they're meant to do.

Your mentality is so flawed it's hilarious and terrifying at the same time.

[dustin1280]

Originally posted by Casval Zem Daikun:

snip

I dismissed D.flame (rightfully so) as soon as I realized how damn ignorant he is and how he hasn't made any REAL points at all in this topic...

There is literally NO POINT in even trying to have a discussion with him, because he doesn't know what he is talking about and will dismiss anything that doesn't fit his black and white agenda of "MAGIC IS OP"

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by Eventide:

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Melee players are dealing with those same attacks, only they are point black and have a fraction of the time to react to those same attacks that you are talking about, as well as dozens of attacks you don't have to worry about at all.

Only you seem to act like different people experience entirely different things in the game. I know melee players are dealing with those same attacks. The reason I said generally I find that you're safer close up is because a lot of the larger enemies actually will flat out miss you if you're close to them. Or they can't use certain hard hitting attacks. As an example, those giant archers? Get close to them and they practically can't hit you at all. A lot of bosses are that size or larger that their swings actually miss you because of their arm length.

Also, while there are attacks you don't have to worry about because of your range, there are others I have to worry about because of my range. What exactly is your point? You seriously act like enemies are PURELY melee at all possible times throughout the entirety of the game.. Or like they don't have gap closers that can launch them from one side of the area to mine in about 1 second while I'm trapped in a cast animation.

You will not win your idiotic argument because it's literally not based on anything but you like "MAGIC OP!" even though it's extremely obvious that you haven't ever even bothered to try it whatsoever. Hilariously though a caster still does melee because we're forced into it. So odds are casters are likely better at melee than you if they had the stats to back it up.

They can smack the crap out of melee users much more quickly at point blank, while you are stuck casting "sword to the face." Plus, in melee range, you have to be looking for way more tells, and they can often look very similar.

The giant archers absolutely can hit you while you are under them. They will fire their arrow at their feet, for example, and it creates a shock wave that can and will hit you. Giants also have the stomps and crap.

I have played both melee and casters in every previous game. Casters are always easier, and I can see that same pattern here. I even gave you solid examples that show how casters make things easier. I even tested it out with a bow, and even a bow proven how much easier ranged is, and magic is even stronger than bows. I even told you two OP melee weapons that casters can use when they need melee. Both even shoot projectiles.

Your only counter argument is name-calling and stating things that are blatantly untrue, such as giant archers not being able to hit you at close range.

[文字化け]

You're the one trying to stack the odds here dude. I'm just summarising your bad faith arguments.

Spacing: Both builds need to position and read animations. Bosses have gap closers and fast follow ups.

Damage: A handful of bosses can be nuked by Azur comet, after a 60 int investment, getting the spell, and the staff (upgrading it also) completing an NPC quest for the helmet, getting the correct wondrous physik mix and then finally getting enough time for set up and hoping the boss doesn't move. Try this on Loretta, Maelina, draconic tree sentinel, etc. Good luck.

Hell you're far less likely to get Loretta's great bow pointed at you as a melee, and even if you did, close range is a counter for it.

A handful of bosses can be stunlocked by ashes (not just the mimic ashes either) by melee with far less of an investment. Don't let the clickbaity youtube videos be the basis of your experience, try a mage build and see for yourself.

Snipers: Magic has range, mages will aggro the camp also. Guess what both builds have though? doge rolling.

Hardened enemies: Reduces spell damage, still have to avoid the attacks, can't build up stagger. Jump attacking just isn't a thing for mages.

Flying enemies: Because throwables don't exist, and enemies don't swoop to attack, right?

[Hekk]

Originally posted by Casval Zem Daikun:

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Damage: Mages can nuke bosses in 4 seconds.

One ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ running a RTSR setup is not exemplary of an entire method of play. Sorceries have their problems too.

You don't need RTSR setup - it's far easier and requires literally... well, 2 inputs to do that. How is Iron Pineapple an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? Is he an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ because according to your limited knowledge of ER he used something akin to RTSR setup? Well, no, he didn't use that for Radahn, in fact he didn't use anything at all besides terra magicus and a flask, which are just a pre-buff. You can make it even stronger, by using Determination / Royal Knight's Resolve - that would make it 60/100% stronger :)
cope harder mate.