why pvp worked in dark souls 1 & 2 and why it doesn't work here

[DUKE NUKEM]

in the original souls games there were clear advantages to the host.....but they also had some downsides that made it balanced for both parties and the phantom could use their advantages to leverage a win

----host
* only has to reach the boss room
* can summon
* can use estus
* has higher health

----invader
*has enemies on their side
* has the advantage of surprise
* can get other phantoms to appear if time goes on long enough
* if you kill the phantoms they can't get a new one

both sides had a good shake. the host won more often than not but it wasn't totally one sided....in elden ring the entire concept of invasions is busted. there is no point to do it and you only have a very one sided game which won't last.

and don't respond with git gud either because multiplayer is exempt from such things as one person's easy is the other person's hard in pvp. i can win a 4v1....but i must use a specific build that just won't be fun for more than 2 or 3 days

[Mr.Fuzzynuts]

引用自 Rinny：

引用自 Mecha Musume：

Love watching invaders get butthurt when faced with literally any amount of adversity

I do love that pvp "mains" show their true colors when they can no longer gank level 10 newbies with their min maxed twink

i mean yeah... is it so bad i just wanna sit in Stormveil Castle and gank noobs all day? Don't kink shame bro

[Marshall]

引用自 Incredibly average：

I never get this sentiment. An invader is not true PvP. Being an invader is being an obstacle to co-op players. Why do you go in expecting a fair fight? You're just supposed to be a nuisance.

If you want fair duels play duels - preferably people you know so they don't just run away and spam magic forever.

Invasions are part of the ecosystem. This is why you sometimes get invaded by an NPC, it's just how it works in that universe. Please define PvP.

[Marshall]

引用自 Rinny：

引用自 DUKE NUKEM：

strawman fallacy, nobody asked for that

just asked to not face 3v1 as mandatory

3v1 is not mandatory but also git gud
Its super easy to just focus the host 2 tap him and then you win, stop trying to kill 3 people at the same time and focus on one

Show us then :)

[Aisar]

引用自 DUKE NUKEM：

引用自 Aisar：

Pvp in souls games has always been garbage. Glad to see hosts have a better chance now.

ds1 and 2 were pretty spectacular actually

atleast elden ring isn't as bad as ds3 or bloodborn

I'm referring to the way pvp is implemented and the way invaders typically act when it comes to invading. The overall theme of invading has never changed, invade, slaughter your prey, take their soul or finger or whatever the invaders want in said game and repeat. It's inherently toxic and scummy, lore wise, gameplay wise, nasty business. Invaders have no problem with openly admitting that they find it fun to do this to other players.

That's mainly why I don't participate in it in any way.

[Rinny]

引用自 Marshall：

引用自 Rinny：

3v1 is not mandatory but also git gud
Its super easy to just focus the host 2 tap him and then you win, stop trying to kill 3 people at the same time and focus on one

Show us then :)

Yep let me just somehow get a recording of a past invasion
Git gud and stop running in without a plan

[Slap]

i've had genuine fun with the PvP just throwing down my taunter's tongue. although even in 1v1s so far i've rarely had an invader that was actually smart enough to kill me.

otherwise my experience invading was ♥♥♥♥♥♥' ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ because of the war of attrition nonsense and people intentionally setting up for invaders so that they can't be lured to enemies or rebalance the fight in my favor. i have to genuinely count on them being too stupid to deal with me properly.

[Omastar]

引用自 Aisar：

引用自 DUKE NUKEM：

ds1 and 2 were pretty spectacular actually

atleast elden ring isn't as bad as ds3 or bloodborn

I'm referring to the way pvp is implemented and the way invaders typically act when it comes to invading. The overall theme of invading has never changed, invade, slaughter your prey, take their soul or finger or whatever the invaders want in said game and repeat. It's inherently toxic and scummy, lore wise, gameplay wise, nasty business. Invaders have no problem with openly admitting that they find it fun to do this to other players.

That's mainly why I don't participate in it in any way.

Because we find doing PvP fun.

[Rord64]

Using the blade of malenia to kill 2-3 people at once with the weapon art...invading is still very possible lol.

[Pinhead Larry]

引用自 poppindancers：

引用自 Balm：

I'm aware of the history of souls pvp and engaged in it pretty heavily back in DS2 and a bit in 3. It's always had problems, and players always try to find a way to exploit and gain an advantage and grief, it's just always going to happen.

However, I think that there is some sort of solution. Off the top of my head, the most obvious solution is for invaders to be randomly paired and sent to their own world together for a game of cat and mouse, since they are both looking for pvp.

While your intention is well, look at the forum I don't think that's what they want.

What they want is akin to killing a puppy. Who are helpless and knows little.

Now that every puppy is accompany at least by their mom or dad, they start shouting"Unfair ! We've been killing helpless puppies for years! Now I might get bit by the bigger dogs."

It's atrocious when you think it that way. Invaders wants to always win, every single time, without effort and full of exploit. They are not duelist of honorable combat.

Finally someone else who see's the truth of From Soft Souls-PvP.

It's garbage, it has always been garbage. The only people who want it either set up dedicated dueling sessions where everyone goes in wanting to PvP, or they're the people you just mentioned, the faux-competitors who make all manner of flimsy, hollow excuses for why doing the videogame equivalent of your D&D dungeon master allowing a player from someone elses game join your table and kill your party while you're already fighting NPC's while the new player doesn't even receive damage.

It's like, holy crap Miyazaki, I JUST want to kill some dead hard bosses and adventure with my friends, I don't want to have my progress and limited use multiplayer-enabling items wasted by some neckbeard who minmaxed their gear and stats specifically for maximum advantage in killing players while my friends and I are all specced and geared for PvE.

If I want to fight people I'll use the duelist items and let other people invite me into their worlds so we can fight, on even ground. I'm not, and never will, invade someone elses world and make them waste more resources than the NPCs already make them waste on their way to the boss. That's what schoolyard bullies do for fun, Christ.

[Aisar]

引用自 Omastar：

引用自 Aisar：

I'm referring to the way pvp is implemented and the way invaders typically act when it comes to invading. The overall theme of invading has never changed, invade, slaughter your prey, take their soul or finger or whatever the invaders want in said game and repeat. It's inherently toxic and scummy, lore wise, gameplay wise, nasty business. Invaders have no problem with openly admitting that they find it fun to do this to other players.

That's mainly why I don't participate in it in any way.

Because we find doing PvP fun.

Right, which makes me wonder if you have a personality disorder.

[ElviraDemonQueen]

引用自 DUKE NUKEM：

引用自 ネプチューン：

cant invaide if i never co op :P

which sucks because i never summon but i totally wana get invaded

you can just use taunter tongue then people will invaide you if wanted and its ulmimited

[Omastar]

引用自 Aisar：

引用自 Omastar：

Because we find doing PvP fun.

Right, which makes me wonder if you have a personality disorder.

Uhh no, I just like taking my build and seeing how it fares against other people - though I'll admit my swaps are just a tad bit cringe.

[Aisar]

引用自 Omastar：

引用自 Aisar：

Right, which makes me wonder if you have a personality disorder.

Uhh no, I just like taking my build and seeing how it fares against other people - though I'll admit my swaps are just a tad bit cringe.

Right I should have said some people are like that lol. Not everyone is a sweaty fun killing pvp edgelord.

[Rord64]

The faster people realize the core of souls and elden ring pvp is based around people being a-holes, the easier life will be.

[Omastar]

引用自 Aisar：

引用自 Omastar：

Uhh no, I just like taking my build and seeing how it fares against other people - though I'll admit my swaps are just a tad bit cringe.

Right I should have said some people are like that lol. Not everyone is a sweaty fun killing pvp edgelord.

I'm not quite "fun-killing" and I've never utilized glitches throughout the games as I find that too cheap/broken, but I do play the games primarily for the PvP.
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