PVP is 100% optional stop crying.

[Lazyactor]

Postat inițial de PortalShifter:

10% of PVPers want a challenging fair fight.

90% of PVPers want to gank noobs for the lulz, because in real life they have no power so they take joy in exploit and abuse in a video game. And if they can't have that experience they will run away. Cowards.

^ look at this guy and the way he tarnishes a strawmans character. Those people he talks about who may or may not exist should sue the man if they do exist for slander.

jesus you people and the way you just assign motivations and thoughts to others who engage in anything you dont approve of. here is a reality check for you, Invasions are fun to do. You can be as honorable as you want and roll spam 1v3 relying on your superior mechanical skill and some luck and netcode help eek out wins or as craven and dirty as you want using the entire level to accomplish the goal. Its just fun and open ended no invasion is the same as the last ones.

Here is another reality check for you, you opted into pvp even when someone is invading you. I played through the whole game and never once got invaded until I summoned someone. Meaning elden ring is designed with the same exact philosophy as previous fromsoft titles.

Contrary to what the useless gaming media tells you about these titles is they do have a way to change the difficulty. In previous titles you had two primary ways of making the game easier for yourself. Use items to achieve your full health bar and summon other players to gank the level and boss with you.

Used to be we didnt have full health. They halved your life bar unless you used an item that also enabled people to invade you to steal that item from you. Which use to be the primary incentive to invade. My first invasion was demon souls. I just wanted more health to survive poison better. PvP with the literal objective to do PvE better.

The thing is that the game was balanced around you having half health and just leveling it up for more health was actually enough to tank a few hits no matter the enemy as you scaled your own level and armor. So actually it was a psychological trick. Instead of giving you a flat choice of double health and being invaded or not it left you with a half bar you could see all the time.

That alone is enough to make most people want the health. You will feel more vulnerable just because you could be tougher. You had two ways to get that extra health. Go online and risk pvp by restoring your humanity or give up a ring slot (talismans in elden ring) to get 75% of the hp bar but you stay offline.

That particular trick is gone however. Does it feel any easier now that you have a full health bar naturally? No because it was always this difficulty. If the game is challenging for you start stacking more health or make less mistakes. That is how you either lower the challenge or get better through getting destroyed. Both keep you off the list of victims for the evil PvPers

However there has always been another method because our lord and savior Miyazaki understand our species is...lets just say widely varied in many different ways to be polite. He wanted us to be able to play with friends and the community in many different ways. The way he remembers having the most fun and he knew that a large portion of the possible player base wouldn't even try if it meant experiencing the feeling of losing without being able to share that burden with others. also playing with friends is more fun almost always...so there is that.

However fromsoft wont let you just make the game easier for free. At the end of the day you have accepted other phantoms into your world to finish your level for you. That is what you are doing. Letting someone else beat your content for you or with you. Either way means you get to skip a lot of the frustrations of learning new mobs and bosses to begin with.

That is an acceptable way to play and the way the game was designed. So I never like it when people insult the people doing what the game wants them to do or puts them down for it. All you really say is that you think less of people because they arent like you....that makes you an arrogant ass.

However that same logic applies to the other side of the argument and specifically the guy up top arguing in bad faith to have legitimate play styles fundamentally altered to fit his personal tastes.

"90% of PVPers want" how the hell do you know exactly? Who are you? Who asked you? Why the hell are you speaking for me on a forum the devs might personally see?

"10% of PVPers want a challenging fair fight." no seriously who the hell do you think you are? I read this and my mind was blown. You are either brand new to the genre and therefore just an ignorant and frustrated gamer. In which case hey man welcome to the community. stick with it.

I am assuming by PvPers this individual actually means invaders. In fact I am betting they dont know about honorable duels. Fair enough the dueling part of the community is really just the RPers in disguise.

"PvPers want a challenging fair fight" This cant be accurate. Even a little. By definition invasions can not be fair fights. Numbers on one side of the other in the fight being equal dont make it a fair fight.

Invaders even out numbered could be walking into a fight they are almost sure to win. The host no estus left 1 hit desperate to get to his bone fire and the phantoms trying to cover him.

Or a fully prepared squad of friends on discord working together to bring down some random mini boss. I have met PvE groups who didnt know it was actual players invading their games. LMAO

Since the state of battle could be anything even if the host sent the phantoms away it wouldnt be fair. I know why I used the item I went looking for trouble. I still didnt show up to have a duel with you. I showed up to play my part and have fun in the spirit the game was designed.

You opted into my invasions. You dying is my only goal. I dont care if it takes 10 minutes or five hours. I wont leave until you make me. Why? because thats what the devs want. You ever notice you get rewarded for dropping a player? you get estus back and you get depending on soul level a boat load of runes to use for yourself?

Thats right invasions are meant to be a fun challenge for your group and a punishment for being in a group. Thats why its not a choice to play only coop. Because it balancing your decisions. The world is easier to progress through with help but we will add in a random miniboss with the most advanced AI out there to take you on. His gear and skill level are almost completely random. Your experience will vary greatly from everyone dying one after another with you being the last toperish so that you may fully witness the horror, while never being able to hit the guy or roflstomping some free xp and an extra heal for you and all the phantoms.

once you kill an invader you are given a generous amount of protection from further invasions. I think it might even last until death. The problem is when you die you choose again to go online and summon help and therefore you choose again to deal with the consequences.

If you use the taunting item that allows to summon 3 friendly phantoms instead of 2 there is no protection timer. I mean you are literally firing a flare and making your game a priority for invasions.

so at least with the current playerbase you an a buddy can go through the game with only a handful of invasions per playthrough. maybe less than fifty because more phantoms means more heat from invaders.

Why are invasions necessary? why cant you just leave us alone!!! whine whine whine.

Because there optional and a penalty for making the game easier overall. Not many game devs would trust their players to be a core design point of their game. Thats what makes these games special. Thats why if you cant stand any 1 part of it to the point you would disparage fellow players characters in the hopes that you can scare the devs into changing their minds is deeply immoral and saddening. You just arent a fan of this series then. Go play one of the many thousands of games that cater to you.

Why are invasions so hard? why cant I win? Why am I always outnumbered!!! I just want a fair fight whine whine whine

because there optional and a penalty for making the game easier overall. Invasions are hard and you never know what you are gonna get. winning consistently requires being really clever or better at the core mechanics than all of your possible opponents that invasion but often times its a combination of both. not to mention netcode is always a constant lottery.

In conclusion, why did I write this? because My uber driver has a flat and I am just now about to get back home. If I wasnt bored I wouldnt of bothered. Because vets of the franchise know that no matter how much you guys cry about it the reasons the mechanics are set the way they are wont be changed by fromsoft. I am pretty sure its because its clear in every anti PvP post on any medium you guys argue from a place of ignorance. you dont understand the games philosophy and you are just chasing pleasure stimulus from one new game to another. Like a field mouse. I bought it so it has to be something I like or it has to change.

Waste of time to cater to you guys which they did with sekiro. It was the first time invasions or pvp wasnt possible at all. An the result is the game died out much faster than all previous titles. While still mainlining a small core like all souls it got to that point much faster. I dont think it sold all the well compared to previous titles either.

If fromsoft listens to you guys it strips the game of its core identitiy its actual fans who got exactly what they wanted with their purchase and more wont be there for a title with no soul in the game. hehe snort hehe im clever.

Edit: im going back to the actual game so I leave it to you forum warriors to battle it out in here. I just wanted to say that it blows my mind the number of people who will post saying no one cares. Lmao I make a lot of ♥♥♥♥ I know not a single person gave a ♥♥♥♥ about. You know how? The comments are empty. lmao.

[Arlen]

Postat inițial de vortex:

It's not 100% optional though. If you want to play with a friend, you have no choice but to open yourself up to invasions.

it absolutely is optional - you chose to purchase a game from a developer who makes invasions a core element of thier game, who already handicapped invaders immensely, to the point that you cannot be invaded if you play solo. When you choose to co-op, you are voluntarily agreeing to participate in a core mechanic of the game - this is not ever going to change - and so what if the invader wants to prey upon your gimp arse, your fun is not his/her priority, as a matter of fact, I personally derive great pleasure from killing you near the end of a difficult zone, that took you hours to get to. Why - because I can, its a game, I am entertained by it.

[ledRid]

Postat inițial de Digitalcat:

Postat inițial de cool-dude:

from my experience in this game thus far, that guys statement is more true than false. I have done co-op with my brother on a number of different bosses with different characters. We never encountered an invasion, so I really didn't have an opinion until yesterday. Yesterday I decide to help my brother fight the gold knight that is at the starting location. We get one guy, who is obviously high level, invade our game over and over. to the point we gave it a few minutes after about the seventh time.

We then make another co-op session after a small break, and instead of that same guy, we get another high leveled person invade. what I find interesting, is that this only happened at the starting point of the game, and both of the players were not new characters like our characters were. So yeah, I can certainty believe that guys statement.

You sure that wasn't a invasion NPC? Because usually, the same person invading you twice is a super small chance, even more thrice, however people seem to fail to understand that the game invasion mechanic is very important to the gameplay, so much so that there are even NPC invasions, that'll appear both in singleplay/co-op as well as offline, that will happen over and over, from the same NPC until you beat them. With several of them per area.

idk about them but i know for a fact invasions can happen without using a rune arc, im not sure where that idea even came from. i have not used a rune arc once in my game but got invaded twice at a boss i was having trouble with, didn't bother fighting them though as i was just summoning people at the door, one of them i never even saw and the other did the usual *stares at you from medium distance then rolls away when phantom attempts to attack*

[Dragonirian]

>pvp is 100% optional stop crying
That is exactly the problem, it shouldn't be optional it should be forced to everyone.

[Lazyactor]

Postat inițial de Krazy Wallet:

I can't believe I read that entire post, definitely 5 minutes I wish I had back . However, I read it so I'll take 5 more minutes to respond haha. First off, it sounds like there's some history here with you being involved in a prior discussion on invasions. I wasn't there so I can't speak to that.

In topic, I agree with you. Allowing invasions when there are summons is a fine mechanic and not at all unexpected given the developer. In principle, I disagree with you. Allow people to voice their grievances and their misgivings of the current state of the game. That is how we grow as a community and make future installments better. We should not shun or silence the community based on their experiences. This person's misgivings about being invaded when trying to co-op is valuable feedback - even if it doesn't result in the game changing. Your feedback that the game should be harder in certain elements when co-oping is also valuable feedback and allowed a platform to speak.

The other items that I would recommend is don't make assumptions yourself as you have chastised the original poster for speaking for the community. Sekiro was quite successful selling over 2M copies within the first 10 days and over 5M by middle of 2020. For comparison, Dark souls 3 sold over 3M copies within its first two months and hit 10M by 2020. DS2 in contrast (which was a worse game than both in my opinion), only sold 2.5M copies by mid 2020 even though it had PVP. So Sekiro probably did not do as well as DS3, but it was also an entirely new title, it was an action adventure game rather than an RPG, and had entirely different mechanics and it still beat out some DS titles. Although I like the invasion mechanics in many souls-like games, it's not what brings me back to each title. I would argue that the success From has seen is due to the core game mechanics rather than the PVP systems even if it is a fun element of the game.

so first off thanks for taking the time to read that. Im home now so instead of playing I will take the time to respond to any post in the first couple hours that rebuttals or rebukes in good faith.

I dont know where you found the guy who said hey if you dont like something I like you cant talk about in publicly but he isnt here. That post is just a random example that you can find everywhere of people disparaging the PvP part of the community as evil degenerates who can only get off on making others miserable. So my point in using that guy not just speaking for me but doing so to throw clout on the average red dude in your games. He is trying to get people upset at invaders when previously they weren't and its disgusting. More so if he isnt crazy and actually believes his own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ He makes it seem to the devs that is how the majority of PvPers in their games behave to make him feel that way. Its disgusting.

To be honest that a fair point and I was wrong to speak about something I didnt really take the time to know. Sales numbers. So I should edit in something about it. to be honest I dont think we can confirm anything about how quickly games dipped and it would be useless to so it comes down to opinion really.

"We should not shun or silence the community based on their experiences. This person's misgivings about being invaded when trying to co-op is valuable feedback - even if it doesn't result in the game changing. Your feedback that the game should be harder in certain elements when co-oping is also valuable feedback and allowed a platform to speak."

Like I said I dont know who his guy is but you get him man.

"Your feedback that the game should be harder in certain elements when co-oping is also valuable feedback and allowed a platform to speak." but this part....this makes me doubt you read anything at all I wrote. Because once again I argued not whether it should be there but that it was there because of core design philosophy you can find in all of fromsoft titles in this genre. excluding maybe sekiro. I bought it played it for an hour and quit it. Just not what I wanted.

Because of that not only is it optional it is also not going anywhere.

[ledRid]

Postat inițial de billybobtexan1000:

Postat inițial de vortex:

It's not 100% optional though. If you want to play with a friend, you have no choice but to open yourself up to invasions.

it absolutely is optional - you chose to purchase a game from a developer who makes invasions a core element of thier game, who already handicapped invaders immensely, to the point that you cannot be invaded if you play solo. When you choose to co-op, you are voluntarily agreeing to participate in a core mechanic of the game - this is not ever going to change - and so what if the invader wants to prey upon your gimp arse, your fun is not his/her priority, as a matter of fact, I personally derive great pleasure from killing you near the end of a difficult zone, that took you hours to get to. Why - because I can, its a game, I am entertained by it.

if you trully believe this and aren't just saying it jokingly then you miss the whole point of the argument, everyone is very aware that they did indeed choose to buy and play this game, they are just saying that if you want to co-op, then you are forced into invasions, so your roundabout way of saying it's optional is actually just you stating that it's not optional

[yannypr]

Since I don't coop outside of helping people with bosses, it's most definitely optional for me. If I ever wanted to coop through the open world or whole dungeons, then it wouldn't be optional. Most multiplayer PvE games have been slowly phasing out forced PvP since it only benefits a very tiny minority of the playerbase, usually at the expense of the vast majority. I think it won't be long before Fromsoft does the same with their SoulsbourneRing games.

[Arlen]

Postat inițial de node357:

Nice speech, but wrong. Lots of people were talked into pre-ordering the game without being warned that PVP would be forced upon them while playing co-op. For some it's too late for a refund, and particularly so for anyone who bought their key from a third-party site.
Press ALT-F4 to vote for personal autonomy.

this is absolute bovine fecal matter - for the last 6 months prior to release, the devs have been real clear about PVP/invasions - how the mechanic works, what set of circumstances trigger invasions, and what limitations on the invaders. Anyone who purchased this game believing this was just going to be a casual co-op care bear disney ride lied to themselves.

Yjere are literally hundreds of games where you and your friends can co-op without PVP, piss off if you get upset that this game doesn't cater to your gimp arse way of playing.

[Lucifer]

Postat inițial de Dragonirian:

>pvp is 100% optional stop crying
That is exactly the problem, it shouldn't be optional it should be forced to everyone.

Based.

[Vida]

While i do miss ganking on noobs i also agree that the pvp system is better atm for new peeps or noobs at pvp, however it's pretty awful in the end game, the only place i can find an invasion is the room just before the final boss and 90% of the time is just a group of peeps trying to kill the last boss and entering the fog as soon as you invade, and ranked pvp is much worse, you can sit 30 minutes waiting for a match and then the dude disconnects mid fight. This is at level 152 just fyi.

[nwad]

Postat inițial de billybobtexan1000:

this is absolute bovine fecal matter - for the last 6 months prior to release, the devs have been real clear about PVP/invasions - how the mechanic works, what set of circumstances trigger invasions, and what limitations on the invaders. Anyone who purchased this game believing this was just going to be a casual co-op care bear disney ride lied to themselves.

I'm sure that works for fanboys, but I'm afraid I only read the steam store page description before buying, like almost everyone else. Do you see any mention of being forced to fight other players there? I don't. I'd even go so far as to say they misrepresented the online experience. I didn't lie to myself. I was lied to. Still am.

[Moon Rabbit]

Title: "Stop crying"

Body: Lots of crying.

[Sigvuld]

These posts are getting more and more embarrassing with every new one. I see more complaining from people like you than anyone else. Brings out the worst in people, I swear.

"THEY RUINED MY PVP!1!!1!! HONOR DUEL ME!1!! POORLY BEHAVING INVADERS DON'T EXIST, PEOPLE WHO HAVE MORE FUN WITH A GAME WHEN THEY CAN DO SO AT THE EXPENSE OF SOMEONE ELSE'S DON'T EXIST!1!!!!!1 ANYTHING ELSE IS A STRAWMAN!1!! PVP IS AN HONORABLE M A N'S SPORT! YOU'RE ALL BABIES! I'M THE STRONG COOL MAN, YOU'RE THE DUMB BABY!"

[bob]

This jig ga writing a novel, probably because some invader raped him and home bois.

[Arlen]

Postat inițial de node357:

Postat inițial de billybobtexan1000:

this is absolute bovine fecal matter - for the last 6 months prior to release, the devs have been real clear about PVP/invasions - how the mechanic works, what set of circumstances trigger invasions, and what limitations on the invaders. Anyone who purchased this game believing this was just going to be a casual co-op care bear disney ride lied to themselves.

I'm sure that works for fanboys, but I'm afraid I only read the steam store page description before buying, like almost everyone else. Do you see any mention of being forced to fight other players there? I don't. I'd even go so far as to say they misrepresented the online experience. I didn't lie to myself. I was lied to. Still am.

Your fault for not informing yourself - the information was and is readily available - you just bought it because it was the next hot game until the next hot game comes out.

Fromsoftware - will have invasions - that is all you need to know. Don't like it - play solo or don't porchase

[Mambo]

lmao. no one is gona read all these paragraphs