Camera versus big bosses

[ZER0]

You literally cannot see any animation/attack a big boss is performing - only a huge leg, or a piece of cape, which completely blocks out the view.

Why is this outdated design still accepted? What is fun about not seeing anything when fighting a boss? This is "artificial" difficulty in you simply not being able to know what occurring on the screen - and then you die as "punishment". Fanboys will defend this.

[Fast Pooper]

It's just part of the game that they never really bothered to "solve" and is considered an acceptable inconvenience just like that other aspects of lock on being designed for controller. Maybe they could zoom out the camera or make all the walls transparent eventually but just accept that you will get unfair deaths occasionally as part of the "challenge" of the game.

[ZER0]

Originally posted by Fast Pooper:

It's just part of the game that they never really bothered to "solve" and is considered an acceptable inconvenience just like that other aspects of lock on being designed for controller. Maybe they could zoom out the camera or make all the walls transparent eventually but just accept that you will get unfair deaths occasionally as part of the "challenge" of the game.

Why do you consider it an acceptable inconvenience? As you said, a zoom should suffice at the least. Accepting it as broken is not achieving anything.

[Panokkio]

Am I a fanboy if I tell you that oversized bosses are too easy because you can just run between their legs or behind them so they really can't do anything?

[ZER0]

Originally posted by Panokkio:

Am I a fanboy if I tell you that oversized bosses are too easy because you can just run between their legs or behind them so they really can't do anything?

Enemies do attacks that are aimed at their own legs. This is the problem - you can barely tell they charge up such an animation for some of the bosses.

[ressenmacher]

It varies by boss. In some cases, it's user error, where you have to remember to lock off and/or get better at reading attack animations from an unconventional angle. BLB from BB is like this.

Sometimes it really just is bad design, though. Paarl or the Ancient Wyvern, where parts of the boss get between you and the camera and prevent you from seeing anything at all, or the big DS3 giants where they're so tall that you can't tell what upper-body attack they're starting without wrestling the camera, are seriously unfair.

I haven't met too many of the latter in ER; the giant golems with halberds have probably been the closest. What enemies are you experiencing these issues with?

Originally posted by Panokkio:

Am I a fanboy if I tell you that oversized bosses are too easy because you can just run between their legs or behind them so they really can't do anything?

I think this would still indicate a major issue with the camera, though: the fight couldn't be made challenging moveset or damage wise because it would become relentlessly unfair and so it's this useless mess where you don't learn/overcome anything instead. Amy is a great example; when you meet them in the Nightmare Frontier, you can just stand under the arms and flail your way to a win. No learning, just lame. But the same strategy becomes incredibly inconsistent and unfair if you try it in a cursed chalice because you can't recover from mistakes anymore (fortunately there is a fair and fun way to do it though).

[Panokkio]

Originally posted by ZER0:

Originally posted by Panokkio:

Am I a fanboy if I tell you that oversized bosses are too easy because you can just run between their legs or behind them so they really can't do anything?

Enemies do attacks that are aimed at their own legs. This is the problem - you can barely tell they charge up such an animation for some of the bosses.

some of them have attacks that makes them turn around and stuff, some has even bigger AoE trying to make the fight harder but it doesn't really matter as every huge mob seems to have their own sweetspot that makes their fight trivial. You literally can just stand between legs or circle around their backs. Yeah you probably get hit few times but involves zero strategy.
Also you can use this to your advantage, you'll know the next move when you're ie. between legs. you can land few hits and run away just to point and laugh at him while he's stomping empty ground

[Youshisu]

Originally posted by Fast Pooper:

It's just part of the game that they never really bothered to "solve" and is considered an acceptable inconvenience just like that other aspects of lock on being designed for controller. Maybe they could zoom out the camera or make all the walls transparent eventually but just accept that you will get unfair deaths occasionally as part of the "challenge" of the game.

yes, you lock target to leg, but camera aims at body :D

[CameroniMacaroni]

my dying wish is for this game

[Loot]

I just find the camera annoying. The way it constantly tries to re-center itself every time you go one way and look in another. It's not so bad on controller, but it annoys the hell out of me on M&K.

[Youshisu]

I fighted the knight on Ceolid castle, and when I had camera locked to knight, it sometimes does spin 360 xD

[Rosh+]

Originally posted by Panokkio:

Am I a fanboy if I tell you that oversized bosses are too easy because you can just run between their legs or behind them so they really can't do anything?

Lava Wyrm Makar is one of the easiest bosses in the game, but he still gets me just below 50% of the time in his second stage because he has an AOE slam attack in his second phase that he spams while you're at his legs is long enough range that you can't outrun it, and it tracks you so that if you run under him, he will almost instantly perform an 180 degree turn to hit you with it anyways.

Thankfully, the AOE itself is able to be iframed, though it is iffy since it has multiple hitframes. One of the most lethal aspects of it is that you can't time it visually because he's 50 feet tall standing up and you can't see him doing the animation. Your only indication that he's doing it is if he's tracking you with the windup which is easy to see because if he is, he's turning in place.

At that point, it's feel, guesswork, or if you're really lucky and catch the animation about a second after it starts, you can count to 6 and dodge it pretty effectively. It's still bad design that the boss is literally trivial but still very lethal in the second phase because of one move that's RNG to avoid 90% of the time.

edit - They made some change to how the camera works with bosses, or that's what it feels like. I no longer have this issue with Makar, or any Lava Wyrm.

[neurosis51]

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

It varies by boss. In some cases, it's user error, where you have to remember to lock off and/or get better at reading attack animations from an unconventional angle. BLB from BB is like this.

Sometimes it really just is bad design, though. Paarl or the Ancient Wyvern, where parts of the boss get between you and the camera and prevent you from seeing anything at all, or the big DS3 giants where they're so tall that you can't tell what upper-body attack they're starting without wrestling the camera, are seriously unfair.

I haven't met too many of the latter in ER; the giant golems with halberds have probably been the closest. What enemies are you experiencing these issues with?

Have you fought the giant holy worm, he's probably the worst offender of "big enemy flailing around and you can't see what attack he's gonna do". He's super fast and takes up half the arena too, but at least his hit boxes are pretty fair, all his charges basically only have his head being the hit box. The explosion is a bit cheese with the pillars coming out of the ground behind you in addition to the aoe. I beat him twice solo in my own game, I was surprised to see him again.