ELDEN RING
All you veterans: Pick the wretch for your first playthrough
I planned on picking Vagabond for my very first playthrough, since I love the knight theme and always roll with that (followed by a mage run) BUT there was always something nagging in the back of my mind and I just couldn't really place my finger on what I was missing.

Just watched a video by Ratatoskr on YT and his argument hit me like a truck: We, who know the Soulsborne games, should consider picking the Wretch class.
Tell me you didn't experience this in older titles: You picked the knight or any of the other well-equipped classes and every loot you got for the first few hours was 100% meaningless because you already had a really good (looking) armor/weapon and shield.

If you pick the wretch, you'll miss out on some stats but really, what does it matter?! The tradeoff you'll get is that EVERYTHING you'll find from the beginning will feel like an upgrade. You'll actually scavage every fallen enemy, hoping for some lousy trousers to upgrade yourself. You'll find that amazing Samurai/Knight armor anyways and man will you be happy when you do.
Funnily enough picking the wretch class for this purpose will ONLY work on your very first/blind playthrough because the stat-tradeoff won't be worth it, when you know which item/spell lies where.

Think about it ;-)
Legutóbb szerkesztette: Swimfan; 2022. febr. 17., 2:56
< >
4660/101 megjegyzés mutatása
I do want to but I also want to be a spellcaster
The different mindsets players start new soulsborne games with is REALLY fascinating.

Some really want every single stat point to count, others just want to have a good time. I myself always felt a little ... "afraid" to not play optimal in games and just recently managed to overcome this mindset but that doesn't mean that planning ahead is a bad thing.
Swimfan eredeti hozzászólása:
I planned on picking Vagabond for my very first playthrough, since I love the knight theme and always roll with that (followed by a mage run) BUT there was always something nagging in the back of my mind and I just couldn't really place my finger on what I was missing.

Just watched a video by Ratatoskr on YT and his argument hit me like a truck: We, who know the Soulsborne games, should consider picking the Wretch class.
Tell me you didn't experience this in older titles: You picked the knight or any of the other well-equipped classes and every loot you got for the first few hours was 100% meaningless because you already had a really good (looking) armor/weapon and shield.

If you pick the wretch, you'll miss out on some stats but really, what does it matter?! The tradeoff you'll get is that EVERYTHING you'll find from the beginning will feel like an upgrade. You'll actually scavage every fallen enemy, hoping for some lousy trousers to upgrade yourself. You'll find that amazing Samurai/Knight armor anyways and man will you be happy when you do.
Funnily enough picking the wretch class for this purpose will ONLY work on your very first/blind playthrough because the stat-tradeoff won't be worth it, when you know which item/spell lies where.

Think about it ;-)
I Kinda disagree with this I kinda get the point but i always wasnt a big fan of the 'knight' mentality souls players had. Thought / still think its a over-rated class

in something like DS3 I think the warrior / merc / harald / pyro are all better classes over-all then the Knight depending on what you wanna do, Herald in a first time play though has a heal spell which ups your survivorbility BIG time with a 100% resist s hield you can still upgrade your weapon later on but its a safe poke type of a weapon.
Warrior is better over-all for Str Builds and the axe has thte warcry, Pyro coz Pyro is OP and Merc coz Dex / twinswords one of the more favorible elitest god tier weapons / speedrun

to me when first starting out in any souls game i tend to go for the hybrid type of class / build coz you never know what yuor going to expect
in DS1 I was debaiting the cleric with a master key so i can loot / have heals or the bandit with the life ring coz at the time i like so many others thought it did what it said and healed over time, MY Greed took over and i picked the thief coz he aparently started with the masterkey and i got to pick another gift, though it did confuse me when i could pick the masterkey again which made me hesitate.

Hybrid type of characters have always been teh bomb in a blind/first time playthough due to having multible options open for them once i learn more about the game THEN I Swap.
except for DS1 I just always was a thief
DS3 After my first playthough i think pyro is best class yeah i woulda had a much harder time starting if i pick him first on a blind playthough but still

I get why people wanna play knight 'best gear!!! Best Stats!!!' but you rarely get the best gear or stats at start and even in past games no matter who i started i quickly swap weapons except for maybe the warrior in DS3 coz Battle Axe War Cry <3
in DS1 I Like the refine club for early on before swapping out to something eles.

reguardless I do think many ppl tend to over-hype over-rate this game in some way or another like this games differculty yeah even back in DMS or DS or such i didnt find this game as hard as ppl claimed
mostly coz being a hybrid rules
A Bow + Arrow good enough even at low levels to draw agro and thus fight 1 guy at a time


Nope eredeti hozzászólása:
Wasn't Deprived have the most stats at start? All 10 and start at lv1
While other class only have extra due to being lv10 at the beginning
They all basicly had the most stats its just the Deprived sence he was SL1 had the quickest XP Gain / Boost so it was easyer to level up and get more stats to fit what you wanted out of a character.

so if you where unsure or wanted a hybrid or such it was a good class to pick.
after beating the first area with the classes in the same number off attempts thus having the same number of souls, the Deprived got to level up more coz of his starting Soul Level thus you always felt like you got more bang for you buck.
Nah, how about everyone just plays how they want?
Paton eredeti hozzászólása:
People are already looking to min/max builds on their first playthrough? Kinda nutty. I don't even know what weapons are in the game yet, don't know how I'd ever plan a build without spoiling a bunch of stuff for myself.
Since stats dropped, not even classes out yet, I already envisioned entire build. Pacing routine (upgrade HP first up to 1k health or equivalent) is also internalized.

It's just like the time with Armored Core before Souls. You already knew all the parts, or kind of parts, you would buy before the game even drops.
Swimfan eredeti hozzászólása:
The different mindsets players start new soulsborne games with is REALLY fascinating.

Some really want every single stat point to count, others just want to have a good time. I myself always felt a little ... "afraid" to not play optimal in games and just recently managed to overcome this mindset but that doesn't mean that planning ahead is a bad thing.
To me the biggest problem in RPGS is how ppl think you have to play X or Y or eles your ♥♥♥♥♥♥.
when in reality your realy not and half the time the so called expert guides are misleading/wrong

ill take a differnt series for example
Pathfinder Kingmaker - yeah had problems at launch but it fix them within a year so hey!
anyways in Pathfinder Kingmaker or PK for short many ppl argue you have to play X class or what knock or eles you where bad!
and many of the so called 'pros' thought that the Slayer was a bad terrible class (Realy wasnt its sence been proven to be one of the better classes in the game) Why did they not like the slayer? coz for a class starting with sneak attack it had the worse sneak attack damage progression, so they thought just be a rogue or such! and they got tunnel vision by the whole 'not good enough sneak attack!' that they completely over-looked over aspects of the Slayer
Like having a full BaB which gave you extra attacks qualified you for feats quicker which gave you extra damage and special abilitys that you got much quicker then the rogue or alc or such
it also had a higher HD meaning it was tanker, had better saves and better weapon/armor pro so it was WAY safer to play and thanks to its higher BaB gave it the option of hitting more easyer and having abilitys / good abilitys unlock much faster

ppl over looked that fact
and in CRPGS like PK ppl tend to ignore the NPCS you can get for guides and such as they tunnel vision only on the main character or such yeah you can play the game solo but thats not realy rec for starters or such for a number of reasons
in PK it was better if you made a tank or a support, Yeah I get it they dont do as much damage as DPS or didnt have as many skills or such as some of the other classes but they where what made the game easyer, The game lacked a good Tank for party comp (Valerie wasnt a great tank) and each of the 3 main supports had a flaw with them (Fixible if you know what to do but still I mean valerie is fixible but still takes ahwile to fix said classes and such)
the Slayer was pretty tanky and did offer good DPS at the same time, So did the Two handed Weapon Fighter tanky enough but still offerd good DPS, Maybe not the best but it was still realy good over-all and much more forgiving then other classes
[Two handed weapon fighters basicly follow 3 rules and they dont have to follow the first rule that closely and they still kick ass which was A) Get Strength as high as possible B) Pick up a two handed weapon C) Take Power attack feat] yeah ppl called it boring coz it was super easy simple to play but you can always control one of the npcs who are casters

Bards in PL where great but why play a bard when the first companion is linzi whos an amazing bard loyal to the MC and good at her job / build ? Like it became kinda redonedent if you made a bard, yes a good / amazing class but redonedent if you took linzi with you.


TLDR :
far 2 many people tunnel vision when they think of builds and guides is what im getting at and often at times that makes there guides / builds not nearly as good as they think it is for a number of reasons.
I don't like the bonk stick, simple as that. I want to start with a weapon I enjoy using - that's the biggest part for me. For example, Vagabond starts with a halberd, a classically beloved weapon. It will seriously diminish my first experience playing a class like the wretch.

My second point that goes hand-in-hand with my first is that I have a massive resistance and spite of the obsession with progression. Elden Ring especially will have endless bounties of discovery, the most rewarding of exploration, especially when you know your own playstyle and what you like. This in itself will be the driving force. Feeling like you're getting stronger will come naturally with this design - there's no need to deliberately set yourself back in terms of starting gear, and quite frankly seems like a waste of time to me. Taking extra steps to get the same result - beating around the bush when the core of the gameplay is right there in front of you. It's not about loot, it's about the encounters that surround it.

I'm going to play what I like, which might end up compromising stats in the end, but at least I'll have the most fun doing it. This is just how I'll be doing it.
PeroxydHydrogen eredeti hozzászólása:
enjoyer eredeti hozzászólása:
I am asking too much probably but do some basic math on different classes
HERO: lv. 7 tot pts 86
BANDIT: lv. 5 tot pts 84
ASTROLOGER: lv 6 tot pts 85
WARRIOR: lv. 8 tot pts 87
PRISONER: lv. 9 tot pts 88
CONFESSOR: lv. 10 tot pts 89
VAGABOND: lv. 9 tot pts 88
PROPHET: lv. 7 tot pts 86
SAMURAI: lv. 9 tot pts 88
WRETCH: lv. 1 tot pts 80

There's no real advantage in the wretch, only the detrement of having points in usless stats for your build.

Are these the final clases? Where's the INTELLIGENCER ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥!
SpookyMoose eredeti hozzászólása:
Nah, how about everyone just plays how they want?

No one said otherwise.

This is just an argument for the Wretch since I found this YouTuber's argument very convincing and interesting.
Varit the Lowly Tarnished eredeti hozzászólása:
PeroxydHydrogen eredeti hozzászólása:
HERO: lv. 7 tot pts 86
BANDIT: lv. 5 tot pts 84
ASTROLOGER: lv 6 tot pts 85
WARRIOR: lv. 8 tot pts 87
PRISONER: lv. 9 tot pts 88
CONFESSOR: lv. 10 tot pts 89
VAGABOND: lv. 9 tot pts 88
PROPHET: lv. 7 tot pts 86
SAMURAI: lv. 9 tot pts 88
WRETCH: lv. 1 tot pts 80

There's no real advantage in the wretch, only the detrement of having points in usless stats for your build.

Are these the final clases? Where's the INTELLIGENCER ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥!
Renamed to the CONFESSOR.
Varit the Lowly Tarnished eredeti hozzászólása:
Are these the final clases? Where's the INTELLIGENCER ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥!

Do you mean the Magician?

That'd be either Astrologer or Prisoner - Astrologer has higher stats in magic tho and is more or less your caster-class while Prisoner starts with an Estoc and should be considered Dex/Magic hybrid.
Ryu eredeti hozzászólása:
Varit the Lowly Tarnished eredeti hozzászólása:

Are these the final clases? Where's the INTELLIGENCER ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥!
Renamed to the CONFESSOR.

At least it's still there. Thanks for the info Ryu. I'm trying to go as blind as possible.
Swimfan eredeti hozzászólása:
Varit the Lowly Tarnished eredeti hozzászólása:
Are these the final clases? Where's the INTELLIGENCER ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥!

Do you mean the Magician?

That'd be either Astrologer or Prisoner - Astrologer has higher stats in magic tho and is more or less your caster-class while Prisoner starts with an Estoc and should be considered Dex/Magic hybrid.

No, a few days ago they posted the classes and there was an INTELLIGENCER. Some other dude came whith a lot of knowledge of everything and stated that, even tho the name was kinda weird, Intelligencers where like spies or something like that in the older times. I just think that was cool.
Varit the Lowly Tarnished eredeti hozzászólása:
Swimfan eredeti hozzászólása:

Do you mean the Magician?

That'd be either Astrologer or Prisoner - Astrologer has higher stats in magic tho and is more or less your caster-class while Prisoner starts with an Estoc and should be considered Dex/Magic hybrid.

No, a few days ago they posted the classes and there was an INTELLIGENCER. Some other dude came whith a lot of knowledge of everything and stated that, even tho the name was kinda weird, Intelligencers where like spies or something like that in the older times. I just think that was cool.

I see :-)
Definitely going Wretch! :praisesun:
< >
4660/101 megjegyzés mutatása
Laponként: 1530 50

Közzétéve: 2022. febr. 17., 2:51
Hozzászólások: 101