[Possible Spoilers] About Melina

[jingstar]

The further I think about it the more I think that Melina was meant to be the final boss of the frenzied flame ending, similar to how Aldia was basically a secret boss in ds2.

If you embrace the frenzied flame before you burn the erdtree, you will get a special scene after the ending where Melina opens her left eye which has a bluish colour before she says that she will deliver you destined death. Both of these are traits of the gloam-eyed queen, who was said to be an empyrean chosen by the fingers (daughter of Marika fits this description) and the trope of a powerful and arrogant being sealing away a former enemy and reusing them when the time comes is not uncommon (Ausar -> Siris from IB comes to mind) and Marika is known to do this to the Fire Giant by cursing said giant to guard the flame forever and he only starts to regain his abilities as you reduce his health. It would be no surprise if she did the same to the gloam-eyed queen. (Bonus points if the sealed character has a turnaround that contradicts their original purpose/personality)

Another thing is how bland the godskin group is as a recurring and potentially lore important group of enemies. None of the items they drop actually talk about the apostles/nobles individually. Add in the fact that they appear in somewhat random places with at most speculative evidence of why they're there makes them seem "filler"ish especially in Farum Azula where they suddenly gain the power to resurrect one another with a shared health bar. This wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the ost. After listening to it I can safely say that the second phase of the music (i.e. a part where the tone shifts) is certainly one of the most high quality boss music in soulsborne, easily having the same impact as gael's if used properly. It is almost as tragic as it is grand, (Try searching it up on youtube and you might see what I mean, though music is subjective so you might have a completely different feeling about the piece of music) and I find it very hard to believe that a piece of this quality was made for a boss fight with no personality, not even a cutscene for any of the godskin apostles/nobles fights. It is because of this that I believe that there was originally going to be a boss that leads the godskins, the fight was meant to have profound emotional and atmospheric impact, and who would be better suited for the job than Melina, wielding the power of destined death and now trying to stop of lord of frenzied flame for the living? To add insult to injury, the player is originally tempted to embrace the frenzied flame in order to prevent Melina from sacrificing herself, if you kill her it would be a rather ironic ending.

Then again I could see this as a potentially problematic decision, since this boss fight would be locked behind a particular ending which locks you out of all of the other endings. Rewards would be an issue and people wouldn't be able to both get Ranni's ending and fight Melina, etc.

Any thoughts?

[fauxpas]

I think its possible cut content or leftovers from abandoned stories, although if the Gloam Queen was one of Mak's children I think it would have been mentioned.

[MrSoul]

Getting to end now, did all frenzied flame stuff once got down into sewers of capital and realized I may never want to do this again so let’s get it out of the way now lol (also plan on finishing Millicent’s quest, backing up save then boom, think do normal ending and frenzied flame that way with a choice you make later on/judging by certain item in her quest and it’s description I remember) and either way should save Melina’s life…whether she appreciates it or not or for w/e that effort is worth(ie if she’s not just some avatar of a god)

I totally agree. Getting very similar vibes to DS2 and all that to unlock the real ending/boss. I feel make sense if she was an avatar or puppet of marika’s and final boss is just her or some horrid monstrosity related to her being true/original(before you mess it up) lord of the frenzied flame. Could work as either marika reveal or just who Melina was all along and is sep.

But ya, did some slight spoiling after she told me go ♥♥♥♥ myself by castle sol(more so check where need backup here) Nope, either be dlc (which makes no sense to me cos not everyone will do that ending) or just something I think never really finished. Why have her say that, like literally says she’ll kill you but no follow up…just weird to me lol

[Izlude]

Based on the cutscenes for that ending I doubt it.

[Hiphoptimus Rhyme]

Originally posted by jingstar:

The further I think about it the more I think that Melina was meant to be the final boss of the frenzied flame ending, similar to how Aldia was basically a secret boss in ds2.

If you embrace the frenzied flame before you burn the erdtree, you will get a special scene after the ending where Melina opens her left eye which has a bluish colour before she says that she will deliver you destined death. Both of these are traits of the gloam-eyed queen, who was said to be an empyrean chosen by the fingers (daughter of Marika fits this description) and the trope of a powerful and arrogant being sealing away a former enemy and reusing them when the time comes is not uncommon (Ausar -> Siris from IB comes to mind) and Marika is known to do this to the Fire Giant by cursing said giant to guard the flame forever and he only starts to regain his abilities as you reduce his health. It would be no surprise if she did the same to the gloam-eyed queen. (Bonus points if the sealed character has a turnaround that contradicts their original purpose/personality)

Another thing is how bland the godskin group is as a recurring and potentially lore important group of enemies. None of the items they drop actually talk about the apostles/nobles individually. Add in the fact that they appear in somewhat random places with at most speculative evidence of why they're there makes them seem "filler"ish especially in Farum Azula where they suddenly gain the power to resurrect one another with a shared health bar. This wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the ost. After listening to it I can safely say that the second phase of the music (i.e. a part where the tone shifts) is certainly one of the most high quality boss music in soulsborne, easily having the same impact as gael's if used properly. It is almost as tragic as it is grand, (Try searching it up on youtube and you might see what I mean, though music is subjective so you might have a completely different feeling about the piece of music) and I find it very hard to believe that a piece of this quality was made for a boss fight with no personality, not even a cutscene for any of the godskin apostles/nobles fights. It is because of this that I believe that there was originally going to be a boss that leads the godskins, the fight was meant to have profound emotional and atmospheric impact, and who would be better suited for the job than Melina, wielding the power of destined death and now trying to stop of lord of frenzied flame for the living? To add insult to injury, the player is originally tempted to embrace the frenzied flame in order to prevent Melina from sacrificing herself, if you kill her it would be a rather ironic ending.

Then again I could see this as a potentially problematic decision, since this boss fight would be locked behind a particular ending which locks you out of all of the other endings. Rewards would be an issue and people wouldn't be able to both get Ranni's ending and fight Melina, etc.

Any thoughts?

There's only one final boss, I don't think there's any lore reason why Radagon/EB wouldn't be the final boss to trigger the end cutscene. And I believe the gloam eyed queen and the rot god that imbued Malenia with the curse are separate entities.


That said Malenia has some really interesting lore implications for the frenzied ending- not the least of which is that her blossom contains Miquella's Needle to quell the frenzy if you change your mind about wanting that ending.

I really hope they do some DLC that dig a lot deeper into both her and Radahn.

[BEOWULF]

I think we can all agree that Melina needed more screen time.

[jingstar]

Originally posted by Sisko:

Getting to end now, did all frenzied flame stuff once got down into sewers of capital and realized I may never want to do this again so let’s get it out of the way now lol (also plan on finishing Millicent’s quest, backing up save then boom, think do normal ending and frenzied flame that way with a choice you make later on/judging by certain item in her quest and it’s description I remember) and either way should save Melina’s life…whether she appreciates it or not or for w/e that effort is worth(ie if she’s not just some avatar of a god)

I totally agree. Getting very similar vibes to DS2 and all that to unlock the real ending/boss. I feel make sense if she was an avatar or puppet of marika’s and final boss is just her or some horrid monstrosity related to her being true/original(before you mess it up) lord of the frenzied flame. Could work as either marika reveal or just who Melina was all along and is sep.

But ya, did some slight spoiling after she told me go ♥♥♥♥ myself by castle sol(more so check where need backup here) Nope, either be dlc (which makes no sense to me cos not everyone will do that ending) or just something I think never really finished. Why have her say that, like literally says she’ll kill you but no follow up…just weird to me lol

I think for me it's more of a case of a thematic experience, to have the first person to give you help be the final boss, the wielder of death now coming to appreciate life, and the irony of killing the person that one may have sacrificed everything to save etc. Just to clarify, I don't think Melina is a "mastermind" sort of character in this story, at least she isn't the one pulling the strings.

As for the needle, I'm ninety percent sure that Miquella made it to fight the scarlet rot goddess who has her essence sealed beneath liurnia as she is described to be a sealed outer god and the scarlet rot there is much more damaging. She may have tried to use Malenia as a vessel to break out but failed due to both her and Milicent resisting her influence. It just happens that the frenzied flame is also related to outer gods.

Originally posted by fauxpas:

I think its possible cut content or leftovers from abandoned stories, although if the Gloam Queen was one of Mak's children I think it would have been mentioned.

To clarify, I mean that there is a resemblance in the identity of the gloam-eyed queen and Melina, and I think that whoever wrote the story intended for us to make the connection.

[TyresTyco]

Well.. there is a youtube video where someone showed that Melina actually has her own movesets, dying animation etc. So yeah I think you are pretty much on point.

[Player Zer01]

Originally posted by TyresTyco:

Well.. there is a youtube video where someone showed that Melina actually has her own movesets, dying animation etc. So yeah I think you are pretty much on point.

you can summon her for the morgott fight.

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by jingstar:

Originally posted by Sisko:

Getting to end now, did all frenzied flame stuff once got down into sewers of capital and realized I may never want to do this again so let’s get it out of the way now lol (also plan on finishing Millicent’s quest, backing up save then boom, think do normal ending and frenzied flame that way with a choice you make later on/judging by certain item in her quest and it’s description I remember) and either way should save Melina’s life…whether she appreciates it or not or for w/e that effort is worth(ie if she’s not just some avatar of a god)

I totally agree. Getting very similar vibes to DS2 and all that to unlock the real ending/boss. I feel make sense if she was an avatar or puppet of marika’s and final boss is just her or some horrid monstrosity related to her being true/original(before you mess it up) lord of the frenzied flame. Could work as either marika reveal or just who Melina was all along and is sep.

But ya, did some slight spoiling after she told me go ♥♥♥♥ myself by castle sol(more so check where need backup here) Nope, either be dlc (which makes no sense to me cos not everyone will do that ending) or just something I think never really finished. Why have her say that, like literally says she’ll kill you but no follow up…just weird to me lol

I think for me it's more of a case of a thematic experience, to have the first person to give you help be the final boss, the wielder of death now coming to appreciate life, and the irony of killing the person that one may have sacrificed everything to save etc. Just to clarify, I don't think Melina is a "mastermind" sort of character in this story, at least she isn't the one pulling the strings.

As for the needle, I'm ninety percent sure that Miquella made it to fight the scarlet rot goddess who has her essence sealed beneath liurnia as she is described to be a sealed outer god and the scarlet rot there is much more damaging. She may have tried to use Malenia as a vessel to break out but failed due to both her and Milicent resisting her influence. It just happens that the frenzied flame is also related to outer gods.

Originally posted by fauxpas:

I think its possible cut content or leftovers from abandoned stories, although if the Gloam Queen was one of Mak's children I think it would have been mentioned.

To clarify, I mean that there is a resemblance in the identity of the gloam-eyed queen and Melina, and I think that whoever wrote the story intended for us to make the connection.

I tend to agree with that, I just roll my eyes at the idea that everyone has to be connected to Mak in some way is all.