Was Ranni.... (SPOILERS)

[Kain]

Responsible for Goodwyns death? She says she was responsible for stealing the rune of death, and the nazguls that killed him had their weapons imbued with it.

[SiFi]

No. Thats someone else. Not sure how much of the game you've done, so wont say more then that.

[Kain]

So maybe my timeline is wrong. She stole the runes and AFTER that Godwin was killed? In my mind it happened in the same day.

[koimeiji]

Ranni stole (part of?) the Rune of Death.
Ranni, using the Rune of Death, enchants one or more of the "black knives" that are eventually used by the Black Knives assassin group to kill Godwyn.
Ranni, knowing when Godwyn is killed, also kills herself (that, or she was destined to die when Godwyn dies)

So, in essence, she is responsible for creating the tools used to kill Godwyn. However, what isn't clear is whether she herself worked with the Black Knives to kill Godwyn.

In fact, certain events pertaining to her quest line as well as item descriptions for items related to the Black Knives heavily implies that the Black Knives do not work for Ranni, and are even against her at some point if not the entire time.

[Anxiety.exe]

Originally posted by koimeiji:

Ranni stole (part of?) the Rune of Death.
Ranni, using the Rune of Death, enchants one or more of the "black knives" that are eventually used by the Black Knives assassin group to kill Godwyn.
Ranni, knowing when Godwyn is killed, also kills herself (that, or she was destined to die when Godwyn dies)

So, in essence, she is responsible for creating the tools used to kill Godwyn. However, what isn't clear is whether she herself worked with the Black Knives to kill Godwyn.

In fact, certain events pertaining to her quest line as well as item descriptions for items related to the Black Knives heavily implies that the Black Knives do not work for Ranni, and are even against her at some point if not the entire time.

This only from what I could piece together, "True death" requires a body death and a soul death, She got rid of her body, and killed his spirit... I think Godwyn's body was the price to pay for her to destroy her own body since they were both of equal value, as Empyreans

[Kain]

Originally posted by koimeiji:

Ranni stole (part of?) the Rune of Death.
Ranni, using the Rune of Death, enchants one or more of the "black knives" that are eventually used by the Black Knives assassin group to kill Godwyn.
Ranni, knowing when Godwyn is killed, also kills herself (that, or she was destined to die when Godwyn dies)

So, in essence, she is responsible for creating the tools used to kill Godwyn. However, what isn't clear is whether she herself worked with the Black Knives to kill Godwyn.

In fact, certain events pertaining to her quest line as well as item descriptions for items related to the Black Knives heavily implies that the Black Knives do not work for Ranni, and are even against her at some point if not the entire time.

They seem to be against her, as evidenced by Iji's death. Maybe they being against her was their way of burning evidence.

[ReZeF]

Im pretty sure it is confirmed with item descriptions, that Ranni is indeed responsible. She disliked being controlled by the greater will and wanted to revoke the current order and its pantheon. Because of this she and her brother are against the golden order. Additionally she gives and item to her brother Rykard, just in case the goods would find out that it was indeed her doing he would be able to kill maliketh.

[Tariff Mike Hawk]

yes, Ranni PURPOSEFULLY killed Godwyn (more importantly, killed his spirit)

Ranni wants to break free of her Empyrean body that 2 fingers gave her, the only way to do this is to kill off her body

but if she uses the rune of death to kill herself, her spirit dies too, since the rune of death can give someone a PROPER death, meaning their soul does not return to the erdtree

so she splits the rune of death in half, she kills her PHYSICAL Empyrean body with half of the rune, and she kills Godwyn's spiritual body with the other half

thats why when you find Ranni's body, it's only HALF of the cursemark of death, the other half is on Godwyn. Thats why later on in Fia's questline, when you give her Ranni's cursemark of death, you will be able to get the complete rune of death

[koimeiji]

Originally posted by Anxiety.exe:

This only from what I could piece together, "True death" requires a body death and a soul death, She got rid of her body, and killed his spirit... I think Godwyn's body was the price to pay for her to destroy her own body since they were both of equal value, as Empyreans

Godwyn is a demigod, not an Empyrean actually.

Originally posted by Kain:

They seem to be against her, as evidenced by Iji's death. Maybe they being against her was their way of burning evidence.

My personal theory is that Marika became disillusioned of the Greater Will and/or Golden Order, and concocted a scheme to end it involving the death of Godwyn and the shattering of the ring.
Marika then worked with Ranni, one of three known Empyreans, and the only one not born of herself+Radagon, to put the "kill Godwyn" plan into motion. After all, the Black Knives are explicitly stated to be Numen, like Marika.
Ranni, however, had her own scheme which she ran parallel to Marika's, involving killing herself when Godwyn was murdered.

[Kain]

Originally posted by koimeiji:

Originally posted by Anxiety.exe:

This only from what I could piece together, "True death" requires a body death and a soul death, She got rid of her body, and killed his spirit... I think Godwyn's body was the price to pay for her to destroy her own body since they were both of equal value, as Empyreans

Godwyn is a demigod, not an Empyrean actually.

Originally posted by Kain:

They seem to be against her, as evidenced by Iji's death. Maybe they being against her was their way of burning evidence.

My personal theory is that Marika became disillusioned of the Greater Will and/or Golden Order, and concocted a scheme to end it involving the death of Godwyn and the shattering of the ring.
Marika then worked with Ranni, one of three known Empyreans, and the only one not born of herself+Radagon, to put the "kill Godwyn" plan into motion. After all, the Black Knives are explicitly stated to be Numen, like Marika.
Ranni, however, had her own scheme which she ran parallel to Marika's, involving killing herself when Godwyn was murdered.

Didn't Marika hide the rune of death so no one else would die though?

So I'm not sure her and Ranni would be allies in this case

[Kain]

Originally posted by JOLLY COOPERATION:

yes, Ranni PURPOSEFULLY killed Godwyn (more importantly, killed his spirit)

Ranni wants to break free of her Empyrean body that 2 fingers gave her, the only way to do this is to kill off her body

but if she uses the rune of death to kill herself, her spirit dies too, since the rune of death can give someone a PROPER death, meaning their soul does not return to the erdtree

so she splits the rune of death in half, she kills her PHYSICAL Empyrean body with half of the rune, and she kills Godwyn's spiritual body with the other half

thats why when you find Ranni's body, it's only HALF of the cursemark of death, the other half is on Godwyn. Thats why later on in Fia's questline, when you give her Ranni's cursemark of death, you will be able to get the complete rune of death

That is true, her physical form does as Godwins soul dies. Just wasn't sure if she did it to make sure her soul would remain.

[Aetrion]

She absolutely is responsible. She created the black knives and there are some implications that she also started the godskin cult.

Her questline is basically one of those things where it's arguable whether or not that's the good ending.

She does want to create a new order where the laws of the world can't be messed with by ambitious gods to suit their own ends.

On the other hand, she does basically murder everyone who gets in her way, including her own family and allies and is pretty much the cause of all of the chaos.

Originally posted by Kain:

They seem to be against her, as evidenced by Iji's death. Maybe they being against her was their way of burning evidence.

Them going after Iji, Blaidd and Seluvis isn't evidence that they are against her, it could just as well mean that she's trying to clean house after she doesn't need them anymore.

[Kain]

Originally posted by Aetrion:

She absolutely is responsible. She created the black knives and there are some implications that she also started the godskin cult.

Her questline is basically one of those things where it's arguable whether or not that's the good ending.

She does want to create a new order where the laws of the world can't be messed with by ambitious gods to suit their own ends.

On the other hand, she does basically murder everyone who gets in her way, including her own family and allies and is pretty much the cause of all of the chaos.

Originally posted by Kain:

They seem to be against her, as evidenced by Iji's death. Maybe they being against her was their way of burning evidence.

Them going after Iji, Blaidd and Seluvis isn't evidence that they are against her, it could just as well mean that she's trying to clean house after she doesn't need them anymore.

I don't think so, she through her dialogue seems to genuinely love them.

[koimeiji]

Originally posted by Kain:

Didn't Marika hide the rune of death so no one else would die though?

So I'm not sure her and Ranni would be allies in this case

Marika hid the rune of death long before she even considered shattering the Elden Ring.

The Rune of Death is not the concept of death, but the concept of indiscriminate death. Without the Rune of Death, Marika (and, by proxy, the Greater Will) was able to dictate when people die.

This was the purpose of the Night Cavalry. When the Greater Will decrees you to die, the Night Cavalry come to kill you.

When Ranni steals part of the Rune of Death, the Greater Will/Marika loses their control over death. Thus, no one can die anymore except the demigods, empyreans, and gods (as they were already immortal.)

When you defeat Maliketh, you restore the full Rune of Death to the world, which is what allows the Erdtree to fully burn.



In the end, we don't fully know Ranni's involvement in Godwyn's death, or with the Black Knives/Marika. We know she made the knives, and had motive for Godwyn to die, but that's it; all other evidence (namely the black knives killing iji and attempting to kill blaidd) points to the Black Knives not being allies to Ranni.

[wildnike]

Originally posted by Aetrion:

Originally posted by Kain:

They seem to be against her, as evidenced by Iji's death. Maybe they being against her was their way of burning evidence.

Them going after Iji, Blaidd and Seluvis isn't evidence that they are against her, it could just as well mean that she's trying to clean house after she doesn't need them anymore.

Further supported that Iji seems to be aware of this (saying something along the lines of "I'll join you soon Blaidd" at the end of the questline before his death by spooky flames), and Ranni very much comes off as someone who will be absolutely thorough in her plans and doesn't take no for an answer.

Even when you first meet her she has Merchant Kale asleep and you cannot attack him. When you go to her tower and accept her service she prevents exit until you talk to everyone. I haven't tried leaving yet, but I would not be surprised if she also stops you from exiting when you pick up her mini version and she gives you an order to kill the Baleful Shadow.

Scary witch.

Selvius/Pidia was absolutely arrogant to think their plan had a chance in hell with the amber draught, though "pride comes before the fall" appears to be a major theme across almost every character in this game.

[Chopper]

Theres a LOT of conjecture about this. Lets carefully examine the facts first so you can come to your own conclusion: -
1. Ranni is somehow an Empyrean like Marika who can inherit Marika's Throne and was being groomed by the 2 finger for this purpose. However, Ranni is outspoken about her hatred for the 2 fingers, from the very beginning and eventually succeeds in killing one with the finger slayer blade we find for her in Nights Sacred Ground.
2. Ranni's real corpse has half the cursemark of death on her, the other on Godwyn's real body in the Deeproot Depths.
3. Ranni is hunted by baleful shadows, servants of the 2 fingers who wish to see her dead for what she has done.
4. At the end of her questline, Ranni tower has a multitude of Black Knife corpses around it, and Iji the blacksmith, her loyal retainer has been killed by Black Knife Assassin, who he managed to kill before dying as well. This must means that the Black Knife Assassins are after her as well.
5. The Black Knife Weapon and Ranni herself tells us that she is responsible for stealing the Rune of Death (from Malekith in Crumbling Farum Azula) and using fell rituals to put the power from the rune into the weapons of the Black Knife Assassins, allowing them to kill a God.
6. The Black Knife Assassins Killed Godwyn's Soul but not his body and Ranni's body but not her soul. Is it possible that Ranni tricked them into this? Did they not know that they were only killing Godwyn's Soul? Did she lie to them in order to enact her plan to escape the clutches of the 2 fingers? If not why are the Black Knives after her? After all she is the one who helped them. The main obfuscating issue here is the lack of a reason for Godwyn's death. Is it because he started the Dragon Cult? Was just a way to get to his Mother Marika? Did he do something heinous to warrant being mutilated in such a fashion?
7. Ranni has a pact with her brother Rykard promising alliance due to shared goals, which means that he knew what would happen on the Night of the Black Knives. Not surprising since he is a blasphemer who rejected the Greater will, the 2 fingers and the Golden Order.
8. Ranni's true goal is to Create a world that liberates the souls from the Golden Order, handing over control to the Outer God of the Dark Moon that her Mother Rennala and the rest of the Kingdom of Caria worship. She can fullfil this goal with our help, becoming the New Ruler of the World as well as the wife of the Elden lord, replacing her step mother Marika entirely.
9. She obviously doesnt much care for her Brother Radahn as we must kill him in order to progress her quest. She doesnt care or even speak about Rykard, as I mentioned earlier they were allies and might be just staying out of each others way. However she loves her mother and creates an illusion of her (the second part of the Rennala boss fight) to fight us when we try and kill Rennala, saving her life. I would also assume she Hates Radagon who abandoned her mother for Marika.
10. Ranni's new age is a cold and dark one, with fear doubt and loneliness on the 1000 year voyage she will have us all embark on. This is her final goal achieved. Doesnt sound as good as she thinks it does if you ask me. Did we help a monster win everything simply because we were blinded by our love for her?