Sad weapon upgrade system

[Unseen]

The game has a great variety of weapons and I'd like to test all sorts of different builds, but I can't. Because Smithing Stones are so limited, I'm forced to play with like 2-3 weapons the whole game coz I can't upgrade anything else. You do get an unlimited supply of upgrade materials eventually, but that's so late into the game you're almost finished by then. It's such a waste of the great arsenal the game has to offer.

It's actually a problem with all Souls games, but it's especially bad in Elden Ring where there are much more upgrade levels.

I'd very much prefer something like a Sekiro-style upgrade system where you get to increase your overall attack power after a boss fight rather than having to upg every weapon individually.

[Tiniturtle]

Unseen a écrit :

Qubert a écrit :

What game lets you have unlimited uber power early on? You must progress, this is part of FromSofts format for progression. How hard is it to understand that.

The ability to change playstyles is not unlimited power. There's no playstyle that's significantly better than others. It's just boring having to be forced to play through most of the game with only 1 build.

u know if u just keep lv up u can be anything in same time right and switch play style when u want

[Qubert]

Unseen a écrit :

Qubert a écrit :

What game lets you have unlimited uber power early on? You must progress, this is part of FromSofts format for progression. How hard is it to understand that.

The ability to change playstyles is not unlimited power. There's no playstyle that's significantly better than others. It's just boring having to be forced to play through most of the game with only 1 build.

You can respec like the 4th or 5th main boss in. I would say that is plenty early enough.

[Unseen]

Darksidewalker a écrit :

I do not know of any game where you are able to use every weapon from the game from the start on ... Thats not how a progression system in any game with rpg elements work... get real.

Missing the point again. The fact that you only get many of the weapons later on is not a problem. The problem is that there's no point using them once you get them because you can't upgrade them.

Just an example: I've already upgraded my sword to +17 with the smithing stones I've found lying around, while the "unlimited supply" currently only lets me upg to +6.

[Unseen]

Qubert a écrit :

You can respec like the 4th or 5th main boss in. I would say that is plenty early enough.

So? Even if you respec your skill points, you don't have weapons to match this new build because you can't upgrade anything.

[ressenmacher]

Panokkio a écrit :

Smithing stones are not limited

Smithing stones are highly limited as static loot; you can easily get bottlenecked at certain levels if you miss a cave, especially with regular smithing stones.

Qubert a écrit :

What game lets you have unlimited uber power early on? You must progress, this is part of FromSofts format for progression. How hard is it to understand that.

The problem under consideration is not that the game refuses to hand over unlimited power, but that it's stingy enough with upgrade materials such that you lack the resources to experiment some with different loadouts.

Now, this has been a bit of an issue in multiple games (Bloodborne in particular is so damn stingy with Bloodstone Chunks), but ER feels especially bad because of how many different levels of smithing stone you'll need and how tuned down enemy drops of them seem to be (ex: I've yet to find an enemy that drops upgrade materials guarunteeed like the Silver Knights of DS3 did. Rates also seem lower in general, though that might just feel like it because of your lower chance of getting the exact necessary level of stone).


Personally, I got stuck with the Lordsworn Greatsword on my first character because I wasn't good enough then to push through Margit at +0 and save the stones for something I wanted to use, and then because I could barely find enough smithing stones to keep just that one weapon up to par, I wasn't able to upgrade anything else to a useable level until about the time I got to Mt. Gelmir, 40 hours in. It was super depressing because I wanted to use a greatspear on that character, but I couldn't upgrade the only one I found because it also took regular smithing stones.

[TheDrunkenMage]

If you actually look for all the Miner Bell Baring then it's not limited at all. You can literally buy infinite of them with no issue. The location of the bell baring you need are also in the general area where your weapons should be the levels that the baring provides. Plus, you can farm most/all of them off of enemies if you can't find the store items. There's really no issue in the progression, the real issue is when you NG+ and you lose all store upgrades and have to recollect them before you can play with new builds.

[Unseen]

DaMage195 a écrit :

If you actually look for all the Miner Bell Baring then it's not limited at all. You can literally buy infinite of them with no issue. The location of the bell baring you need are also in the general area where your weapons should be the levels that the baring provides. Plus, you can farm most/all of them off of enemies if you can't find the store items. There's really no issue in the progression, the real issue is when you NG+ and you lose all store upgrades and have to recollect them before you can play with new builds.

This:

Unseen a écrit :

Just an example: I've already upgraded my sword to +17 with the smithing stones I've found lying around, while the "unlimited supply" currently only lets me upg to +6.

I'd say it IS a pretty big progression issue.

[Donoghu]

By the time I even got the first items that unlock the stone in the shop, I already had around 4 melee weapon at +9 (on at +12), 1 shields at +5, 2 incantation tools around +5 and +6 and 1 bow and 1 crossbow at +7.

Now that I have unlocked up to the [4] with the stones, I upgrade lots of stuff to +12 and try them out. It cost barely anything to upgrade to that point. If I find a weapon I like, upgrade it further and if I'm not feeling it, it goes back into the bunch of other crap I have stored.

With the latest update, I'm crapping lots of [5] stones and below out of my butt from just running into human-based camp on Torrent and going all "slashy-slash" on everything that moves. I get at least 1 stone representative of the difficulty of an area at every 2 runs (if not more).

[Edifier]

The problem is that when you get the unlimited ones in the shop they are actually rather expensive.

For the normal stones you need to buy way to many to max a weapon and it'll cost a ton to buy all of those stones.

This makes the Somber stones a far better in value and you only need 1 per level but finding them is still a pain.

Now what they could have done is that enemies actually drop these stones far more often because on my first play through I just had enough stones to upgrade ONE weapon and I couldn't really try out other weapons because my main weapon would be stronger.

They are too stingy with the upgrade materials until you've completed the game.

[TyresTyco]

We could argue that hiding 3 bell bearings in the last area of the game is a lil bit to late. But since we have other ways to upgrade some weapons. I dont see the issue. All souls games are like this, it there to prevent people having everything within a couple of hours. And the sekiro upgrade system wouldn't make any sense in this game. Abolutely none.

This system hinders nothing. You could always just go get the bell bearings or just get the stones you need.

Really weird thread. Looks like a "wah wah wah I can't do what I want.. it hinders my pRoGrEsSion". Ridiculous. Get cheat engine and play offlne mode if you want everything without any kind of effort.

[Last Place]

There are items called Smithing Stones that can be used to upgrade your weapons. Since the 1.3 update, random enemies will drop these stones of all kinds, Basiclly, infinite upgrade materials as long as you're willing to play the game.

You also have the option of finding Bell Bearings in the world, these can be handed to an NPC somewhere to buy unlimited stones from them.

Good luck on your first From Software game!

[BlueShadow]

Edifier a écrit :

The problem is that when you get the unlimited ones in the shop they are actually rather expensive.

For the normal stones you need to buy way to many to max a weapon and it'll cost a ton to buy all of those stones.

This makes the Somber stones a far better in value and you only need 1 per level but finding them is still a pain.

Now what they could have done is that enemies actually drop these stones far more often because on my first play through I just had enough stones to upgrade ONE weapon and I couldn't really try out other weapons because my main weapon would be stronger.

They are too stingy with the upgrade materials until you've completed the game.

If you do the bird cheese, they are not expensive. I don't have a lot of free time on my hands and grinding to level up my weapon is a time sink.

[The Time Traveler]

Unseen a écrit :

The game has a great variety of weapons and I'd like to test all sorts of different builds, but I can't. Because Smithing Stones are so limited, I'm forced to play with like 2-3 weapons the whole game coz I can't upgrade anything else. You do get an unlimited supply of upgrade materials eventually, but that's so late into the game you're almost finished by then. It's such a waste of the great arsenal the game has to offer.

It's actually a problem with all Souls games, but it's especially bad in Elden Ring where there are much more upgrade levels.

I'd very much prefer something like a Sekiro-style upgrade system where you get to increase your overall attack power after a boss fight rather than having to upg every weapon individually.

But you arent finished by then. there is new game+ newgame ++ newgame +++ etc etc. Expansions. Dlc's.

Breathe. You just consumed a years worth of gameplay for some people.

[The Time Traveler]

You actually need to do newgame+ to get the weps you like to +10 or +25. Dragonstones are a few per playthru. However. There is an exp farm thats so rediculous at moghwyn palace with the sacred sword(from endboss) that getting all weps to +24 and +9 becomes trivial providing youve found all bearings.

[Tom]

I always found the weapon upgrade system of souls games to be a bit strange and 'gamey'. Honestly I thought they were replacing the old upgrade system with the new War ashes where you would 'upgrade' your weapons by finding and using ashes that work better for the area and enemies you encounter.

Actually I'm curious about something, which do you think would be better in terms of progression and game design?

Find a knight at area one, he's a little tough but you beat him to death with a stick. Then you find the same knight in area four, same moveset but harder because he has more health. So to beat him you have to throw some rocks at your stick to make it a plus 9, just to deal more damage.

Or.

Knight in area one has rusty armor and moves slowly with a limited moveset, Your own moveset is similarly limited and slow as you're just starting out and your character does not know what they are doing. Knight in area four is much more lively and reactive to what you do. By leveling up and using ashes of war you expand your moveset with your chosen weapon. Becoming faster even changing the animations so your character feels like they know how to handle the weapon, unlocking combos and new moves that deal more damage.
And because weapon progression is partially tied to character skill you will always start with an advantage on picking up a new weapon from a high level compared to at a low level. As in your guy now knows how to handle one sword so he can apply much of that same skill to other swords, and to other weapon types to an extent, all thats left for him to 'learn' is the details of using any particular weapon since he's got the basics down already.
In a way it would be like upgrading one weapon to plus 25 and now every other weapon starts at plus 12 or something.

Thoughts?