Understanding the frustrations of Elden RIng. (There is TL;DR)

[CB(Bits)]

OK, so I am not trying to trash the game, I'm just comparing Elden Ring to the previous Fromsoft games to see why some players may find Elden Ring boss fights so hard and tedious. This is simply my observation and opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.



FIRST OF ALL, let's look at the combat rhythm

In Dark Souls 1-3 and Bloodborne, combat is basically an alternation between 2 stages, avoiding and attacking. While in Sekiro, combat is basically a long deflecting section with some small windows of direct attack.

In DS and BB, bosses are comparatively slow and have longer windows in between combos, because that's when players are allowed to deal damage, longer windows = more hits = shorter combat. While in Sekiro, enemies are comparatively fast and have shorter windows in between, because deflecting IS dealing damage, faster attack = more posture damage = shorter combat.

Now, let's look at Elden Ring, enemies are on Sekiro level of speed and have small windows in between. If players are playing as Sekiro, there wouldn't be a problem because deflecting and rolling were instantaneous in Sekiro. However, players are fighting Sekiro level speed with DS level speed, so we are in a disadvantage that we have smaller windows to attack, and our rolls are NOT instantaneous making us more vulnerable**.**

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Now, let's look at boss health

In DS and BB, bosses generally takes about 30-40 hits with weapon level on par with current progression. While in Sekiro, main bosses generally takes around 40 deflects per death blow.

Now in Elden Ring, main bosses can take around 60-70 hits with on par level weapon. While bleed out can reduce that to around 30-40, that would force everyone to only use bleed and arcane build if they want the fights to go faster. Also, if the enemy is immune to bleed out and even scarlet rot, that would mean everyone will have to hit over 60 times to win.

In addition, upgrading toward end game is way more expensive in Elden Ring. So weapons being "on par" may be slightly harder to get to if you don't explore a lot.

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Next, boss damage

This one is hard to summarize, so I will just generalize it to a degree.

In DS BB and Sekiro, with sufficient health(and medium armor in souls), player can take over 5 normal attack hits, and probably 2-3 heavy attack hits. While blocked(in DS), even elemental damage attacks can only chip away your health.

Now in Elden Ring, many attacks are really hard to tell if they are normal attack or heavy attack because they all hit extremely hard. Speak from my own experience, 45 vigor and medium armor, late game bosses can 2-3 hit me with normal attacks, and 1 hit me with heavy attacks while I'm at around 80% health(never been hit by a slow attack at full health). While blocked, if they have elemental damage, they can kill me within 3 hits(in terms of end game bosses).

In addition, Elden Ring bosses have more attacks that cannot be blocked or if blocked will get chain combo to death. Since blocking is such a big part to DS series, and they even introduce a new guard counter system that seems to encourage blocking, this kind of attacks simply confuse and disorient players who prefer blocking instead of rolling.

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So let's summarize. TL;DR

Compare to previous games:

We get smaller attack and heal windows

We fight faster enemies while being slow as previous souls games.(no instantaneous deflect and roll like Sekiro)

Bosses can take a lot more hits unless everyone restrict themselves to bleed build(excluding bleed immune bosses)

High level upgrades cost a fortune and more explorations

Bosses can kill you with less hits even when you have high health and armor

Encourage blocking with new system while nerfing blocking

[CB(Bits)]

If anyone reading this has any frustrations with the game they have, or even objections to this post I'd like to hear them. From new players or souls vets.

[yuzhonglu]

But its open world so you have a lot more flexibility.

[Kada]

nerf to blocking? Ive noticed shields being better then they have ever been in this game

[CB(Bits)]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von yuzhonglu:

But its open world so you have a lot more flexibility.

I can see your point there but the amount you have todo to just keep up with the world can honestly burn some people out, If you aren't making a meta build with the moonveil, or seppuku dual katanas. Then your gonna have todo alot of and i mean alot of exploring to keep up when you want to make a character yourself not just using the most OP things you can.

[Sox]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SuperPower_Hour:

If anyone reading this has any frustrations with the game they have, or even objections to this post I'd like to hear them. From new players or souls vets. :praisesun:

after ive gotten my invasion phase over and done with im going back to ds2 is all i can say

[CB(Bits)]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kada:

nerf to blocking? Ive noticed shields being better then they have ever been in this game

In the post its mentioned that the mid to late game bosses have insane damage that can break your shield and leave you open to death. So blocking seems almost useless agaisnt them most times.

[CB(Bits)]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sox:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SuperPower_Hour:

If anyone reading this has any frustrations with the game they have, or even objections to this post I'd like to hear them. From new players or souls vets.

after ive gotten my invasion phase over and done with im going back to ds2 is all i can say

Well may you seek joy in the land drangleic friend

[Sox]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SuperPower_Hour:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sox:

after ive gotten my invasion phase over and done with im going back to ds2 is all i can say

Well may you seek joy in the land drangleic friend

it sucks that the servers are still offline

[Kada]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SuperPower_Hour:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kada:

nerf to blocking? Ive noticed shields being better then they have ever been in this game

In the post its mentioned that the mid to late game bosses have insane damage that can break your shield and leave you open to death. So blocking seems almost useless agaisnt them most times.

when fighting the bosses that i actually used a shield for it felt fine to me, not much broke my guard at all really, how much endurance the user has determines that mostly. And their shield stability (guard boost)

[landmass]

people arent willing to utilize the tools in this game or they think things are "cheap" while thinking bleed is essential...

utilizing weapon arts, spirit ashes and the open world then a majority of the tedium is alleviated or minimized. people will say "git gud" and laugh at someone using a simple spirit ash while that same clown is running some dumb "OP build" they copied from a youtube video.

if you use the tools then the windows for attack open up and the constant aggro and speed with which the bosses and enemies attack can be mitigated.

[CB(Bits)]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kada:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SuperPower_Hour:

In the post its mentioned that the mid to late game bosses have insane damage that can break your shield and leave you open to death. So blocking seems almost useless agaisnt them most times.

when fighting the bosses that i actually used a shield for it felt fine to me, not much broke my guard at all really, how much endurance the user has determines that mostly. And their shield stability (guard boost)

Well that's nice to hear for your character but I thought i was putting good points into my endurance as well along with some talismens, But I just never felt like blocking was gonna cut it anymore.

[Kada]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SuperPower_Hour:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kada:

when fighting the bosses that i actually used a shield for it felt fine to me, not much broke my guard at all really, how much endurance the user has determines that mostly. And their shield stability (guard boost)

Well that's nice to hear for your character but I thought i was putting good points into my endurance as well along with some talismens, But I just never felt like blocking was gonna cut it anymore.

I've really enjoyed the shields in this game, i mainly use them against the bosses i have a harder time dodging and it works wonderfully. The guard counter also is super fun

[CB(Bits)]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kkmmnn:

if you use the tools then the windows for attack open up and the constant aggro and speed with which the bosses and enemies attack can be mitigated.

I can agree with most of your post, There are some spells apparently that alot of people don't use that straight up reduce elemental damage like fire, magic, holy, lightning etc. But from what i have atleast seen people don't look at them for the situational uses they bring and just think its a waste of a spell slot.

However what i disagree on is that there are some tools that outright make bosses more open. Like sure you have like shackles but that's just for certain bosses. Nothing from my knowledge besides that can make bosses less aggro- Ok i am just realizing mid type you probably ment spirit ashes. That's true it is a good tool i know i used them for alittle bit of breathing room here and there.

[CB(Bits)]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kada:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SuperPower_Hour:

Well that's nice to hear for your character but I thought i was putting good points into my endurance as well along with some talismens, But I just never felt like blocking was gonna cut it anymore.

I've really enjoyed the shields in this game, i mainly use them against the bosses i have a harder time dodging and it works wonderfully. The guard counter also is super fun

So during fights when you guard counter the bosses you fight don't immediatly do some leap out of range or after taking the hit act like nothing happened and keep attacking you?