Why wretch is the best class

[Mesond]

Once you get to respec it flips around and it gets easier then any other class in the game. In terms of stats and spreading them out at least. Any stat can be reduced to 10 with the points going to any area you like. Any other class is locked to a higher number somewhere.

Just make sure you get a sword and some armor from the first camp. Then you're good to go. Fun starting with nothing. There's more then ten respecs in a play through. Most can be saved for later levels. But it can be a good idea to use one or two larvel tears for early respecs if you want to shift points around more easily. A wretch has complete freedom here. Any stat can be reduced to ten with the points going to any other skill. No other class can do that.

Where a fighter has to keep their strength at 16 as a min a wretch can put those extra 6 points into vigor or endurance or intelligence. The carian sword has 18 int to use. So it can be good for that for example.

[Zorelnam]

Wretch is the best class, i love me club and i love me underwear, simple as

[Mesond]

Originally posted by Zorelnam:

Wretch is the best class, i love me club and i love me underwear, simple as

Going by your profile icon it looks like you even stripped your skin. XD

[grandma_moses]

Well, using the 'higher numbers' your char is locked to for your build and leaving the 'lower numbers' out of your build is literally all that char-building is and it's also the only reason your choice of starting class matters at all.

Or, to put it differently: 14 Strength suck if you do not want Strength, but they are always fine if your char is your 'strength' char.

Wretch is definitely the best class to completely change playstyles later in the game, if you prefer doing that to just level a new char to do what you want. The 15 Larval Tear limit also somewhat limits the usefulness of a char that can do 'everything', but needs a respec every time to do so.

If your char is supposed to do one build and one build only, the fitting starting class will always be better.

But if you want to relax in like NG+3 with 60 Larval Tears and respect to whatever you like to do today, sitting on all weapons and spells, then it is definitely a class that is more flexible than any other.

[Codester]

Sure, if you want to try out different play styles.
I only play melee. There for playing wretch is not optimal. Samurai is. I dont *want* 10 starting in every magic stat. If I hybrid or want a specific stat for a weapon I can raise that one while retaining the extra 5+ points to just throw in vigor.

[Mesond]

Originally posted by Codester:

Sure, if you want to try out different play styles.
I only play melee.

Keep in mind there's "strength" melee and "dex" melee.

Been rocking the red twin spears lately. I love it. Goes nice with my crucible armor too.

[Lord Freedom]

If any of the weapons you are using require strength or dexterity over 12-14, then it is objectively the better decision to play Vagabond (1st) or Samurai (2nd) for min-maxing, since they have the fewest points in faith/int/arcane (most builds only utilize one or none of these) and the most in vitality/endurance (most builds utilize both of these).

Ultimately it doesn't really matter though since I'm killing everything in 1 and a half hits anyway.

[Kain]

It's a good starter class, but, it doesn't make a huge difference on the long run.

[Lord Freedom]

Originally posted by < blank >:

i havent actually looked at stat distribution of starting classes but IIRC the naked guy always had the lowest soul level or least 'waste' in their stats for min maxers to fill out or respec later

if you are trying to do certain things though i think certain starting classes may be better due to bonus stat points wretch doesnt get - again i havent looked at the pure numbers but if you want to do the thing a starting class is set up to do, it may actually be better than wretch

im sure there is a table on google drive somewhere with all this info

This isn't true because wretch starts off with 10/10/10 in int/faith/arcane, compared to Vagabond which starts at 9/9/7. That means Vagabond gets 5 free points over wretch for any build that will only utilize one of those stats. Vagabond gets a head start in vitality and endurance, which virtually all builds should be putting some points into anyway, so these are not 'wasted' points.

Really the only build that wretch is #1 at in terms of min-maxing would be a int/faith/arcane build... which wouldn't be super great in terms of scaling and weapon selection.

[Wrinkly]

Originally posted by Zorelnam:

Wretch is the best class, i love me club and i love me underwear, simple as

Tiny pants to make the club look bigger. I had to grow a beard to keep me warm.

[ImHelping]

I guess with meme builds being so popular, running at the moment a "According to this stat planner, my vagabond with 9 int and 7 arcane turned out to be most efficient anyways!" style is overlooked.

granted, I tend not to worry too much about that anyways and prefer "smooth start over jerking off about how efficient/challenging my start is" these days. But it is kind of funny how it worked out as "accidentally will be 2-3 levels more efficient than alternatives whether I stop at 100, 120, or 130"

[UNITED STATES OF SMASH]

I think wretch is best class because it gives best feeling of having nothing and being empty slate, and it prolongs early game where every find is much more valuable instead of having good gear from start. Nothing wrong with having others classes but wretch definitely has its appeal

[Kain]

Originally posted by TheCaptainGhost:

I think wretch is best class because it gives best feeling of having nothing and being empty slate, and it prolongs early game where every find is much more valuable instead of having good gear from start. Nothing wrong with having others classes but wretch definitely has its appeal

That's a great point. Plus, giving you an Uchi like that just for nothing if you pick a samurai... wuuut? You gotta earn weapons like that.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by Kain:

Originally posted by TheCaptainGhost:

I think wretch is best class because it gives best feeling of having nothing and being empty slate, and it prolongs early game where every find is much more valuable instead of having good gear from start. Nothing wrong with having others classes but wretch definitely has its appeal

That's a great point. Plus, giving you an Uchi like that just for nothing if you pick a samurai... wuuut? You gotta earn weapons like that.

This is also something I have started to laugh at because it is such a revovling door argument.

You suggest somebody new to the games pick one of the 100% shield starts "Buht you can get a shield if you know where to look!" and entirely discounting starting with something because "You can get it later!"

Meanwhile, samurai is it's own sliding goalpost of "You GOTTA start with an uchi, NOW starting gear matters!" and "Oh uchi start is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ for babies who dont' want to work for a katana".... But the uchi is in one of the earliest dungeons on the game. you don't even need to beat the boss to get it.

You are not "Earning" anything when it comes to an Uchi... Which makes both claims "class starts are OP you gotta earn good weapons" AND "LOL who cares what you start with just get it later" look like idiots.

That said, people defended darksouls 2 "broken sword start" and "11 str, when you need 12 str to one hand the mace you started with" as OP EZ spoiled baby starts. So I guess some people are just desperate to sound tough on the internet over any form of inconvenient over challenge.

[Týr'el]

As usual "better/best" depends on the use case.
* wretch is a good class if you intend to respec and play with different builds.
* It is bad if you are a newcomer to FS games. The difficulty may feel overwhelming (no relevant equipement to play a class)
* it is bad if you want to dual wield uchis (there is only one per playtrough, so you need the samourai starting uchi)
* if you have already planed your build, go for any other min-maxed profiles, 10 everywhere is suboptimal for pvp builds.

[TrueEvil]

Funny enough, Wretch is objectively the worst class for opimization.

If you compare the points that every class begins with, Wretch doesn't get any sort of long-term advantage whatsoever. That is to say, Vagabond may start at level 9, but it indeed starts with 8 more points spent in various places than the level 1 Wretch.

Here's where optimization comes in. Let's say you want to make a Quality build (STR/DEX hybrid, for the unaware). Vigor, Endurance, Strength, and Dexterity are all important here. Mind, Intelligence, Faith, and Arcane, are probably not.

Vagabond has only starts with 10/9/9/7 spent in MND/INT/FTH/ARC respectively. That's 4 points taken out of "useless" stats for the Quality build, that are already spent in stats it would have leveled anyways for the Quality build.

The Wretch, however, is forced to remain at 10 on all stats. And if it wanted to match Vagabond's initial spread in VIG/END/STR/DEX, it would need to level up 13 times. That then puts it 5 levels ahead of the Vagabond. It has additional points in INT/FTH/ARC, but since the build in question doesn't require those stats, this is not an advantage.

Basically every class has some sort of optimization use-case like the one above. They will neglect some stat(s) and favor others in a way that certain builds will have the leveling advantage. Wretch simply cannot do this. And when a build ends up with 10+ in every stat, then it doesn't matter much anymore, since practically any class can attain any arbitrary stat spread by the same level at that point.

Wretch is the class you pick when you don't know what you want to do from the beginning. It might not be the optimal for any specific build, but it's never at a super heavy disadvantage, like a Vagabond-turned-caster would be. You can turn it into whatever you want it to be without too much trouble.