What is the point of Guard Counter?

[|<[]-ę]

I wanted to make classic knight, sword and board type.

Guard counters are useless. Every enemy can literally kill you before your guard counter hits them because it takes so much time. Idea is good, but it's literally most useless mechanic beside very scpecyfic situations where you maybe land one and break enemie's posture.

Can someone explain how I'm suppose to use that, or just make dual blade build and forget about shields.

[Codester]

So...OP has no clue what a guard counter is confirmed lol.

[Spiffington]

引用自 rudeboy：

You don't need to block a whole combo to utilize guard counter.
Ideally if you can, you only want to block the last hit of the combo and then guard counter. Or, obviously when an enemy recoils off your shield.

[ImHelping]

引用自 Clockeye：

"...beside very scpecyfic situations where you maybe land one and break enemie's posture."

I like how people are ignoring this point of his, just to repeat it as if it's a counter argument lol.

*guard counters knight after knight guard counters me* poise broken yet?
*does it again* poise broken yet?
*does it again* poise broken yet? still no? wow good job recycled knight number billion.
*stagger finally when enemy has a little sliver of health, or they die first*

Granted "guard counter OP LOL" is basically troll bait to sucker people into trying to use it during more fights with enemy combo spam and fast recovery post combos where you just get punched in the face or an AoE for even bothering to use it.

I mean sure, I use guard counters on rats and dogs (with weapons that will not miss them because ♥♥♥♥ hitboxes). But buying into the EZ mode EZ stagger narrative is just asking for an oopsie death.

You will honestly do better saving the guard counters for trash fodder, and pretending it does not even exist in the average boss fight or recycled enemy dungeon/mine boss fight.

And even then, lots of fodder likes to just poise through a guard counter hit that would have knocked them down if it was a standard strong. Like using a strong charged pike stab on birds stuns them out of the sky, but guard counter they just poise through to breath fire on your guard counter recovery. This is also why I stick to non-guard counter attacks on stuff like the singing bats (you know, even ignoring how blocking around bats is grab bait). Because when you fall for "Guard counters are OP EZ mode", you end up a sucker that gets stomped when that is farthest from the truth.

[Asakura Shinichi]

引用自 D. Flame：

You can literally use it on the last hit of their attack or combo in many cases they will do another attack faster than your GC can connect. (AGAIN, see the Margit wombo combo example. Block the last hit of it, then try a GC, and see what happens. You're going to be eating a quick dagger 1, 2. .

So what does it change from what i said? You literally dont want to adapt and find moments to use this technic, you just want to spam one technic for win cause you are to low on IQ and skill, so please tell me how exactly you dont want the enemies just stand still so you can attack them for free. I know i know, you are to low on skill cause modern games are literally garbage in terms of challenge or difficulty and you got used to being babysitted and hand holded by a game. GIT GUD SCRUB.

[Deykar]

You still need to time it right and use it at the end of a combo. Getting the guard counter is better in that scenario than going for R1.

[Asakura Shinichi]

引用自 D. Flame：

引用自 Asakura Shinichi：

So what does it change from what i said? You literally dont want to adapt and find moments to use this technic, you just want to spam one technic for win cause you are to low on IQ and skill, so please tell me how exactly you dont want the enemies just stand still so you can attack them for free. I know i know, you are to low on skill cause modern games are literally garbage in terms of challenge or difficulty and you got used to being babysitted and hand holded by a game. GIT GUD SCRUB.

It changes everything. You said the first hit, and I pointed out it happens on the last hit too. You watch for an opening, see an opening, go in to punish during that opening, and then it stops being an opening because the AI decided to cancel their own recovery to attack again instead. Now, do you want to discuss this like adults, or do you just want to keep tossing childish insults instead?

There is only one child here and that is you complaining about a mechanic thats good but not overpowered or broken and requires some skill and tactical thinking to use it properly and not spam it just cause you have a shield. Im not gonna talk to you like to an adult when you are a baby crying casue you lack the skill to use a guard counter properly

[LUKE]

It becomes VERY powerful when paired with a greatshield with high guard boost and either straight sword or hammers ~ honestly it kind of busted since you can crit consistently and without much effort (esp if you are using an ele attuned Misericorde for your crits)

[DrBobcat]

Guard counters are intended to be used by people using heavy armor so they can have enough poise to get their attack through. Otherwise, you have to dodge most of the attacks in a combo, block the last, and then use a counter since it's difficult to absorb the most ridiculous ♥♥♥♥ bosses can do in a flurry. While I carry a shield to parry sometimes, I don't bother with guard counters against most bosses.

[Xengre]

引用自 Sonnenbank：

Guard Counter is insane vs all kinds of basic enemies like dogs etc.....
its probably the single most effective thing in the game vs non boss monsters

Way through Crumbling Farum Azula was easy peazy for me
and that was 100% due to Guard Counter mechanic

I'd say its up there but if we're talking pure PvE non-boss mobs I'd argue Flame of Redmanes beats it.

You can use it and clear nearly every dungeon in the game without using a single health flask almost completely reliably due to the fact 1 cast AoE breaks most trash mobs poise. Stronger mobs and even bosses may take 2-3 casts. Then you get a free critical on them. If you equip the Assassin's Cerulean Dagger it restores 1 more FP than the skill costs so you can clear dungeons without even needing to recover FP unless they have numerous more powerful mobs but a handful of Ashen Flasks will fix that, esp as this is so safe you will typically not take damage. Equip a Misericorde (140 crit, probably fire scaling best at least so far I've seen).

It will AoE entire groups of mobs, has pretty good range, doesn't have a left hand requirement/shield requirement or put stamina requirements like a shield would, nor does it need 100% block setups to avoid damage.

[I'm cucked]

引用自 D. Flame：

引用自 Asakura Shinichi：

There is only one child here and that is you complaining about a mechanic thats good but not overpowered or broken and requires some skill and tactical thinking to use it properly and not spam it just cause you have a shield. Im not gonna talk to you like to an adult when you are a baby crying casue you lack the skill to use a guard counter properly

I beat Godfrey and Maliketh with guard counters. I'd like to see you do the same before calling others unskilled. It certainly feels like I have way more experience with the technique than you do.

So just keep namecalling, and I will just keep reporting posts instead of taking the bait. If you ever want to discuss things properly, I'll be waiting.

"This mechanic is bad, but I beat one of the hardest bosses in the game with it."

You're a clown.

[jjdinkle]

Can confirm guard counters are very nice, I've been playing through with a great shield because of it's increased guard stability, you often have enemies recoil off of it (being a great shield) so things like alabaster lords are laughably easy since they just recoil and get guard countered constantly until you stagger them after something like 3 hits.
Plus having the crutch of a reliable shield that will not consume all your stamina is really nice when you're learning attack patterns you can instead block and then roll past after becoming familiar with them.

Using a regular shield doesn't make guard counters so viable though, so TLDR is use a great shield for guard counters. It makes the game very easy and very safe while still remaining aggressive with loads of guard counters causing lots of staggers.

[I'm cucked]

引用自 Rinklestein：

Can confirm guard counters are very nice, I've been playing through with a great shield because of it's increased guard stability, you often have enemies recoil off of it (being a great shield) so things like alabaster lords are laughably easy since they just recoil and get guard countered constantly until you stagger them after something like 3 hits.
Plus having the crutch of a reliable shield that will not consume all your stamina is really nice when you're learning attack patterns you can instead block and then roll past after becoming familiar with them.

Using a regular shield doesn't make guard counters so viable though, so TLDR is use a great shield for guard counters. It makes the game very easy and very safe while still remaining aggressive with loads of guard counters causing lots of staggers.

Barricade Shield makes guard-counters perfectly viable for medium shields, as well.

引用自 D. Flame：

I beat Maliketh with in it IN SPITE of the mechanic, NOT because of it. You aren't going to learn the ins-and-outs of the mechanic if you don't use it. You aren't going to learn those ins-and-outs if you only use the mechanics in situations where it is beneficial.

The fact that I am trying to use it in fights where it is unbeneficial means that I am learning its shortcomings in ways that you aren't, can't.

It really doesn't matter. If you can beat Maliketh with guard counters, they aren't bad. Period. Also i frequently use guard counters on my Spartan build, against bosses or regular enemies, and yes, Maliketh. Guard counters are good, they just require you to think and plan properly to be used effectively. I've guard-countered basically every boss in the game to great effect. They're definitely better against regular mobs, but they're great on bosses too since they do so much stagger.

[Kobi Blade]

引用自 Retrodex：

Guard counter works if you have high poise or if you wait for the enemies weapon to recoil.

You don't need high poise, you not even supposed to get hit since for guard counter the enemies need to hit the shield.

What you need is shield stability, and don't try counter without the enemy either getting staggered or finish his combo.

Is that simple.

[juicy]

引用自 D. Flame：

引用自 Jork：

everyone here saying guard counter sucks really needs to try again with a greatshield instead of a normal shield.

it makes a huge difference.

It still sucks. If you think it is good, try using it in the Maliketh fight.

his boss fight is designed to punish that due to damage over time

[D. Flame]

引用自 Burn：

Barricade Shield makes guard-counters perfectly viable for medium shields, as well.

Barricade Shield got massively nerfed in the patch before last.

引用自 Burn：

It really doesn't matter. If you can beat Maliketh with guard counters, they aren't bad. Period.

Wrong.

Take DS1 for comparison. The Gwyndolin fight was perfectly balanced that even a melee build could beat it without feeling forced to change builds. Look at the Maiden Astrea Fight from Demon's Souls, there were so many ways of clearing that fight so that regardless of how you build your character, you had a reason time clearing it.

The fact that building for Guard Counters takes such a huge investment, bosses should not be making it feel like it is useless, or a niche technique.

Like I said, I spent the time learning the ins-and-outs of it, and I am tell you it is too bad to be worth build around. It is a niche technique that can be easily ignored.