Co-op and Summing Ash Spirits is not 'Cheesing'

[Old Man Gamer (OMG)]

Firstly, the game mechanics are there for a reason. Maybe, you should try the fights at an earlier level, if you think it made it too easy.

Playing with the Ash Spirits is both fun and beautiful. They have their own animations and skills, that are enjoyable to watch. Granted, I will go and die on purpose to bosses and mobs, just to see the unique animations involved. The developers took the time to make these detailed and outright fantastic.

Playing with Co-op is beneficial for everyone. The person joining gets a Rune Arc upon winning the boss fights. The boss victory gives the same reward to the host, regardless if you did it with no weapon or with a jolly cooperator.

Playing Co-op allows for invasion PvP. The host has every chance to win this, and they get a lot of runes upon victory. If they lose, they lost nothing, and the invader gets a rune arc.

Losing in PvP is not something to be ashamed of. I lose nearly all of the time, and I just go pick up my runes and try again. It is no different than losing to a difficult NPC, Except you get to see a unique build, hone your skills, and get rewarded or git gud. I do a lot of git gud.

Just putting things in perspective. It is not always about winning. This is a game. That means losing is part of the adventure as well.

[Amaranth]

Being above level 1 and using any weapon is cheesing

[Cereen]

Waiting for the typical people that come in foaming at the mouth to scream "GIT GUD"

[♔V3RD1CT]

Originally posted by Amaranth:

Being above level 1 and using any weapon is cheesing

This is correct according to the current META that only uses i frame breaking bleed proc to win.

[Tiger Born]

Lol true story, Death means nothing in Elden Souls-Born games. Don't be afraid to die.

[Mandz]

I've always thought that everyone's first run is the "honorless" run, basically the playthrough where you pull out all the cards you need to win. So I don't really take it against people when they 'cheese' fights to progress, and I'd argue that there's enough variance in the environment and movesets of similar enemies, that being even able to find a way to cheese them all is arguably a skill in itself.

Challenge runs, trying other builds, skillcheck playstyles come in after you beat the game, or when making a second character.

[♔V3RD1CT]

Originally posted by Mandz:

I've always thought that everyone's first run is the "honorless" run, basically the playthrough where you pull out all the cards you need to win. So I don't really take it against people when they 'cheese' fights to progress, and I'd argue that there's enough variance in the environment and movesets of similar enemies, that being even able to find a way to cheese them all is arguably a skill in itself.

Challenge runs, trying other builds, skillcheck playstyles come in after you beat the game, or when making a second character.

Those of us who have more fun, or care more about creativity a lot just have not caught up yet to the 150-200 pvp ridiculous meta. From what we all here, and what I've personally learned is fact in the unbalance factor, I can not imagine anyone like myself wanting anything to do with this 'endless cycle of wannabe play.'

Tot agree who cares if you cheese in PVE, hell I would not care if you hack in pve, long as it STAYS IN PVE. The fact you all take it into PVP makes it a childish wannabe pvp platform is all imp.

[Soth]

Beautifully put. I love the Spirit Ashes as it's sort of a way of having a companion NPC that isn't stifling and is totally optional for the overall Souls experience if you want more of a challenge. It's just one more cool little thing to appreciate, and It's neat to watch them as their AI is decent, too. Although the idea might not stick when you throw it at the wall, and might imbalance the PvP, the idea of being able to have Spirit Ash battles is appealing, or have a Spirit Ash arena, lol.

[mewlynx]

Originally posted by Mandz:

I've always thought that everyone's first run is the "honorless" run, basically the playthrough where you pull out all the cards you need to win. So I don't really take it against people when they 'cheese' fights to progress, and I'd argue that there's enough variance in the environment and movesets of similar enemies, that being even able to find a way to cheese them all is arguably a skill in itself.

Challenge runs, trying other builds, skillcheck playstyles come in after you beat the game, or when making a second character.

opposite for me. i went out of my way to solo as much of the game as possible on my first playthrough, now I'm gonna use ash summons on whim for gank bosses

[Cereen]

Originally posted by baelynx:

Originally posted by Mandz:

I've always thought that everyone's first run is the "honorless" run, basically the playthrough where you pull out all the cards you need to win. So I don't really take it against people when they 'cheese' fights to progress, and I'd argue that there's enough variance in the environment and movesets of similar enemies, that being even able to find a way to cheese them all is arguably a skill in itself.

Challenge runs, trying other builds, skillcheck playstyles come in after you beat the game, or when making a second character.

opposite for me. i went out of my way to solo as much of the game as possible on my first playthrough, now I'm gonna use ash summons on whim for gank bosses

This is what I have been doing up until the endgame bosses because absurd damage- might as well have something to tank some of it for me :^)

[poppindancers]

It's not, play however you want.

[mewlynx]

Originally posted by Emusrath:

Originally posted by baelynx:

opposite for me. i went out of my way to solo as much of the game as possible on my first playthrough, now I'm gonna use ash summons on whim for gank bosses

This is what I have been doing up until the endgame bosses because absurd damage- might as well have something to tank some of it for me :^)

I used summons on godskin duo, but I was able to solo everything else on the same build without having to adjust my build, which I'm quite happy with. definitely made things harder on myself, but I wanted to do it

[UNITED STATES OF SMASH]

Where is reason why people now when talking about boss fights have to mention that they didn't use spirits.
Developer once sad something about universal difficulty and wanting community to be on same page with er this is not the case any more.I don't judge anybody what they use or ♥♥♥♥ even use cheats if you want if we talking single player. But yeah its a shift for souls games.

I also used to like watch souls games playthroughs after finishing the game myself and take a look if people had same hard time with same bosses, encounters and so on. Now i checked some videos and seeing somebody use spirits its totally different experience. This is not any more same shared difficulty. Its not huge problem or something its just not what it used to be

[Trezoitao38]

It is.

You all are just want to feel good using.

[♔V3RD1CT]

Originally posted by Trezoitao38:

It is.

You all are just want to feel good using.

Exact same with DC.
I quit and LOST entirely so I can pretend I did not quit, and lose entirely. LMAO

[Apsychos]

Spirits makes most fights trivial cuz its so easy but u do idk why u gotta justify it on steam discussions