I feel like most bosses are balanced around summons.

[Josh]

That's the only explanation I can think of for encounters like double crucible knights and bosses like Commander Niall. And if that is the case, I feel like the game would've been better off without summons. Just my opinion though.

[GrandTickler]

yea never been a fan of multi boss fights, but thankfully we have summon ashes now for those situations


edit: inb4, but they die in a few hits. theres summons that play very evasive, and others that resurect themselves, theres always a good situation for specific summons

[Kyutaru]

baelynx eredeti hozzászólása:

Elden Step-Bro eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't know it's such a pathetic excuse even if it's their answers to summons. I'd rather they make a well designed Duo bosses than just dumping multiple versions of the same boss in a room with zero thoughts put into it. The gargoyle is actually a good duo boss. The only dumb thing about the fight is the poison breath. The poison is fine but the fact that it deals damage at the same time is dumb. If you got knocked out before hand and have to stand in the middle of the poison breath you're genuinely screwed.

I definitely don't think the gank bosses in this game are well designed for the most part. Ash summons are the only reason they're even remotely acceptable, but it's definitely a step down from O&S or Demons of Pain/Hatred.

It's like the game was designed with coop in mind so they made challenging bosses that having a coop partner makes fun. And if you don't have a coop partner, you can summon a ghost version. Or you can choose to go at it completely solo then wonder why a boss balanced around 2 players is suddenly much harder with only 1.

[Reaper415]

GrandTickler eredeti hozzászólása:

yea never been a fan of multi boss fights, but thankfully we have summon ashes now for those situations


edit: inb4, but they die in a few hits. theres summons that play very evasive, and others that resurect themselves, theres always a good situation for specific summons

I haven't reached the part where you get mimic tear yet, but I did the tree spirit early and got Oleg. He's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ CHAD. Better than many player summons even imo.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

lol summons are just there to diversify the experience and make this game easier and more accessible.

This is like complaining about ornstein and smough and saying it's balanced around co-op.
Or thse gank bosses in DS2.

Figure it out...
Or summon. There's nothing wrong with summoning if you need help.

[mewlynx]

Reaper415 eredeti hozzászólása:

GrandTickler eredeti hozzászólása:

yea never been a fan of multi boss fights, but thankfully we have summon ashes now for those situations


edit: inb4, but they die in a few hits. theres summons that play very evasive, and others that resurect themselves, theres always a good situation for specific summons

I haven't reached the part where you get mimic tear yet, but I did the tree spirit early and got Oleg. He's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ CHAD. Better than many player summons even imo.

Mimic is kinda lack luster after the nerf tbh. Still usable, but there are much cooler summons out there. Like fighting alongside a Black Knife Assassin or Cleanrot Knight is way cooler than a clone.

[Zengar]

So, what you are saying is that they...balanced the game...around the tools that you have?
What is this sorcery? So, they add summons and they shouldn't balance around them?

I'm not sure I understand. Should summons make the game MORE easy? should they add a new power, but balance like it didn't exist because...players will not want to use the new power?
I really don't get it.

Also, this saga is probably the only one where playing optimally is looked down upon. Maybe the game is not the hardcore beast you think it is, and it's only hard if you refuse to use the tools the game provide you.

[Old Man Gamer (OMG)]

I disagree with those who call the bosses cheap difficulty, but I also disagree with those that say summing co-op is cheap victory. There is a reason the mechanic is there.

I beat all of the bosses solo, except Malenia. I beat all of the bosses without Ash summon side kicks up to the godskin duo. Do you know what I received differently from those soloed bosses that someone who ran co-op did? Nothing different at all. Progression and rewards are the same. However, if you run co-op, you help others get more rune arcs. You help others enjoy the game more as well as yourself.

After running co-op with Malenia, which made the boss far more fun and interesting, I decided that I will do co-op far more often. As Mark Twain said, the greatest way to get the fullness of joy, is to share it with someone else.

[Yeff]

Morton Koopa Jr. eredeti hozzászólása:

lol summons are just there to diversify the experience and make this game easier and more accessible.

This is like complaining about ornstein and smough and saying it's balanced around co-op.
Or thse gank bosses in DS2.

Figure it out...
Or summon. There's nothing wrong with summoning if you need help.

The complaint is that bosses were intentionally overtuned in order to account for the OPness of summons.
We could've gotten more fun bosses but instead for people who don't like using summons we need to deal with BS design.

[GrandTickler]

Reaper415 eredeti hozzászólása:

GrandTickler eredeti hozzászólása:

yea never been a fan of multi boss fights, but thankfully we have summon ashes now for those situations


edit: inb4, but they die in a few hits. theres summons that play very evasive, and others that resurect themselves, theres always a good situation for specific summons

I haven't reached the part where you get mimic tear yet, but I did the tree spirit early and got Oleg. He's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ CHAD. Better than many player summons even imo.

nice :) yeah tree spirit is a annoying one, also dont got the mimic yet but my Kaiden Sellsword Ashes seems super tanky and strong. probably because its the only one i have +4

[mewlynx]

Trancevestite eredeti hozzászólása:

Morton Koopa Jr. eredeti hozzászólása:

lol summons are just there to diversify the experience and make this game easier and more accessible.

This is like complaining about ornstein and smough and saying it's balanced around co-op.
Or thse gank bosses in DS2.

Figure it out...
Or summon. There's nothing wrong with summoning if you need help.

The complaint is that bosses were intentionally overtuned in order to account for the OPness of summons.
We could've gotten more fun bosses but instead for people who don't like using summons we need to deal with BS design.

If you don't like using summons, then you are intentionally ignoring mechanics and making the game harder for yourself. It's not impossible to play without summons by any means, and choosing to not use summons is making the game harder on yourself by choice. This is one of the few ways Elden Ring differentiates itself from DS3, whether or not it was a good decision is highly debatable.

[Yeff]

baelynx eredeti hozzászólása:

Trancevestite eredeti hozzászólása:

The complaint is that bosses were intentionally overtuned in order to account for the OPness of summons.
We could've gotten more fun bosses but instead for people who don't like using summons we need to deal with BS design.

If you don't like using summons, then you are intentionally ignoring mechanics and making the game harder for yourself. It's not impossible to play without summons by any means, and choosing to not use summons is making the game harder on yourself by choice. This is one of the few ways Elden Ring differentiates itself from DS3, whether or not it was a good decision is highly debatable.

Yes, you just expanded on the point i was making lol, and yes clearly i'm in the group that thinks it's a bad decision.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

Trancevestite eredeti hozzászólása:

Morton Koopa Jr. eredeti hozzászólása:

lol summons are just there to diversify the experience and make this game easier and more accessible.

This is like complaining about ornstein and smough and saying it's balanced around co-op.
Or thse gank bosses in DS2.

Figure it out...
Or summon. There's nothing wrong with summoning if you need help.

The complaint is that bosses were intentionally overtuned in order to account for the OPness of summons.
We could've gotten more fun bosses but instead for people who don't like using summons we need to deal with BS design.

Ornstein and Smough were also overtuned. That was so hard! But it was fun to figure out how to beat it solo.

But I fully understand that some people don't want to commit the time and effort it takes to beat O&S solo, so they summon for help. And that's totally cool.

But if there were people who just couldn't beat O&S and refused to level up, figure out strategies, or summon for help, and just dismissed O&S as a bs boss, and Dark Souls 1 as a bs game...more power to them too. The game's just not for them.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

Old Man Gamer (OMG) eredeti hozzászólása:

I disagree with those who call the bosses cheap difficulty, but I also disagree with those that say summing co-op is cheap victory. There is a reason the mechanic is there.

I beat all of the bosses solo, except Malenia. I beat all of the bosses without Ash summon side kicks up to the godskin duo. Do you know what I received differently from those soloed bosses that someone who ran co-op did? Nothing different at all. Progression and rewards are the same. However, if you run co-op, you help others get more rune arcs. You help others enjoy the game more as well as yourself.

After running co-op with Malenia, which made the boss far more fun and interesting, I decided that I will do co-op far more often. As Mark Twain said, the greatest way to get the fullness of joy, is to share it with someone else.

Bravo man! I'm glad you're having such a fun and successful experience with this game! :D (I just remember your threads from before launch)

[NitoAndTheFunkyBunch]

Morton Koopa Jr. eredeti hozzászólása:

This is like complaining about ornstein and smough and saying it's balanced around co-op.
Or thse gank bosses in DS2.

The difference is that Ornstein and Smough actually compliment eachother. They each have strengths and weaknesses that would make their first phase super easy if they were solo.
Elden Ring just slaps two bosses designed for solo in the same room

[Cpt.P1mp]

They are designed to use different weapons n tactics outside of what you are confortable.
Not use a summon.

Niall is a guy I beat on my 2nd attempt. Just use a big sword to stagger the npcs. When I got to him I had a katana.
Died, switched to gsword, noticed it was staggering the knights in the castle, that are the same ones he spawns.

Tried him with gsword And smack.
They are not made with summons in mind, just be more creative.
Godskin duo? Put one to sleep.
My niall take on new game.
https://youtu.be/MsZxUzQ5TGs

Can see the npc is staggered to death.