The controls are simply terrible.

[Trackpad Chad]

Please do not necro this thread, and no I will not improve readability because the formatting is hilariously schizophrenic in retrospect

Tl;dr for Christ's sakes, just let us customize more than just simple re-binds

Firstly, the preamble: I beat the game, get a better excuse.

This game suffers from too many controls and the game by design has a very conservative action economy. There is no way to configure the ridiculousness in game because all you can do is change the binds. The input buffer has been talked to death and if you defend it, you probably smell terrible.

Why are the controls bad?

Let's start with the rolling. Many of you have probably learned the hard way that the roll starts on button RELEASE. This is bad because it creates room for human error in a game that requires precise timing. It is natural when in an intense situation that your motor control becomes more tense. The faster a planned reaction, the less precision you will have. Your ability to work around this will vary from person to person, and controls should not be the cornerstone of a game's difficulty.

To the inevitable, obtuse response that will result from criticizing negative edge rolling, "it just makes the game require more skill git gud," play QWOP for five ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ seconds and tell me how much fun you are having after the novelty dies off. Another example: imagine that you are driving and your usual station is now playing Kidz Bop but some bumbling idiot made your radio a touch screen (which requires taking your eyes off the road to operate) and tell me how that makes you a better driver.

Instead of fighting your own reflexes rather than a cool boss fight, here's a fix assuming you aren't playing this game with kb/m (a whole different can of worms of terrible): Steam has their own integrated controller configuration that is compatible with most standard controllers and games. Stumble around with the menu enough and you can find that you can set your roll button to be a turbo (helps when the game ignores your inputs as well), and then bind a different button to be the standard roll button for when sprinting is wanted. You can even make your control scheme change with the press of a button, it's some gourmet ♥♥♥♥ for those who love customization. I did this and found vast improvement, and dying because of poor controls is a bad experience.

Why are the camera controls bad?

low FOV, too many colossal enemies, no way to turn off auto camera. On top of that, you have your thumb typically reserved for important actions like rolling, chugging, jumping, etc. If a cowardly space centipede teleports behind you for a command grab, you better hope you rotated the right way in time so you can actually see the attack to adequately dodge it.
Sometimes, the camera automatically shifts to show an attack if you are locked on, but it's not guaranteed and this opens up a variety of issues with the lock on system.
Say that your line of sight is interrupted by a random shrub for 4 atoseconds while fighting a flying bastard. If you are running away for better positioning and want to lock back on, guess what? The lock on button also doubles as a camera reset. Better hope that you can aim without a cross hair, because if you miss, you just blinded yourself to an enemy. The camera is also completely locked so you can't pivot to get a better angle if a fat pot bastard is blinding you to radahn's lawnmower. On top of all this, FromSoft should be investigated for animal cruelty because I'm convinced these lock on nodes were placed by chimpanzees. The Farum Azula dungeon was completely ruined for me because I had a small weapons build and I couldn't fast travel to rebuild; the ancient dragons are completely incompatible with the camera. Firstly, they fly all over the place. If you do not lock on, then you will easily lose sight of them. Secondly, you will miss a lot of their attack queues if you are not locked on. Why are the lock on nodes idiotic in this situation? You can't target their damn ankles. Like I said, I had no means of rebuilding and I was using small weapons. Locking on is basically required and the nodes forced me to whiff my attacks because the dragon is a lanky, tall, graphics driver-crashing bastard. I had to spend an ungodly amount of time positioning myself right behind their feet just so I can get a few stabs in before the bastard flies all over the damn place. It was completely dysfunctional, and the item those things drop are extremely important for progression.
I don't even have a fix for this. I have even tried gyro controls, and my current solution is a steam controller trackball and prayers. The camera is genuinely awful.

Lastly, horse controls.
I could probably write another wall of text, but we are both tired at this point. Horses are basically required to avoid some attacks, and everything about horseback feels inconsistent, clumsy, and unresponsive. I genuinely don't see why people like horseback, it feels terrible. Nothing about it feels fluid.

There's also the jank of micromenus and inventory juggling, but it's a very minor issue.

The controls in this game need addressing and the simple solution is to allow more than the bare minimum for configuration. They are hideously designed, and make far too many deaths feel unearned. In a game about """"harsh, but fair"""" difficulty, the last thing you want is obvious reasons the game is at fault.

[Essedus]

The original pong is probably more up your alley.

[DrBobcat]

Regardless of the OP's opinions on the controls, the idea that people are calling this game responsive when compared to countless other titles out there (DMC, Nioh, Ninja Gaiden, etc) that feel much more responsive. You may be able to make them work for what challenges the game throws at you, sure, but describing them as responsive is humorous. It's blatantly obvious that it was From's intention to make the controls feel sluggish and rigid as a way of punishing spam and encouraging deliberate play.

[VLARC]

So you are goning to tell me that a console game, which was made by FROM, has bad controls? And then you would also explain how most of it's issues are caused by gamepads limitations?

Wow. What a shocking revelation.

[H3llF!r3]

Publicado originalmente por Doogdog:

Publicado originalmente por jay jay the dank planezinho:

format your text.

Sorry, on mobile, and I'm lazy

GIT GUD or no read

[Rocket]

-They need to pull the camera back 5-10 feet so I don't roll off a cliff.

-Make it like Ninja Gaiden where when you turn the analog stick long enough the lock on target releases.

-Turn off auto center camera so I can manually aim

-turn off the auto center aim during a finisher/execution so I can see the other enemies

-Manufacturers ALL need to put buttons behind the controller. Paddles / rear buttons need to be standard

Amazing game with lots of SMALL flaws. But they do add up

[BassChamber]

Yeah, rolling on button release is really bad design these days. Could you imagine Mario Bros with jumping on release and binded with running? Would be stupid, players would adapt but It would be nonsensical. Same with this bad control design decision.

Camera is not that bad though, for the most parte.

[Glug]

Publicado originalmente por Edifier:

Edge rolling? Do you mean rolling off a cliff?

I don't know where the term originated, but in fighting games there's something called "Negative Edge" which basically means that the input is registered on button release. In Guilty Gear, the character Zato=1 is split into two characters, a puppet master and a summoned shadow demon called Eddie. Both characters share the same controls so in order to not accidentally commit to heavy attacks with long wind-ups with Zato, Eddie attacks whenever a button is released, so you can control them independently.

Basically, since roll happens on button release, that would make this a negative edge input.

[Grumpy Hobbit]

The camera kills me more that the so called tough boss fights. Camera control is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ joke.

Target enemy....yeah not the closest one but that guy on the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ edge of visibility!
Lock on target....no not turn around and face away from the guy about to kill me.
Killed an enemy.... now look random direction and try to work out what the system wants you to look at.

Did I say the camera is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful.

Just went from killing Godrick without getting hit to getting killed by a mob because I couldn't target them to use a spell.

Forgot to mention, the camera controls are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ abysmal!

[Trackpad Chad]

Publicado originalmente por Edifier:

Rolling going off when you release the button is fine for me. After playing the previous Souls games it's just how the game works.

It hasn't gotten me killed and the only time you actually need to hold down something is for charge attacks. Anything is a single press.

Dodging attacks is easier this time around compared to other souls games. While there are hard bosses I have a much easier time dodging others that have slow attacks. Even explosions are easier to dodge. I remember in DS2 it was a hell to dodge stuff, even with points into the adp stat.

Edge rolling? Do you mean rolling off a cliff?
The game has a ton of places where you're supposed to jump off. If they added a feature that stopped you from falling over if it was a bad spot it'd just be bad.
In the start you can try and see if there is an edge protection system. If not, you'll have to keep in mind that edges are not your friend when fighting enemies.
It's been the same since all Souls games and it's not going to change.


The controls for me are not bad. Even when I first picked up Dark Souls 1 I was easily able to get into the controls and get the hang of it. That has been the same in all Dark Souls games.
Comparing it QWOP is also ridiculous.


Camera controls when fighting giants? Yes this is a bit bad but it gives size a meaning. There are not too many of them and it does feel great to kill these giants.
Overall camera controls are that of a standard third person game. Lock on, on an enemy you want to focus on.

Don't get your issues with crosshair. If you manually aim you got one. But when you use lock on you don't need one because your character will aim at the target you've locked onto.
Camera reset is done in the direction the character is facing too. So that you can quickly change camera position. But this is honestly a controller issue more than a game issue. If you use mouse and keyboard this isn't an issue.
Any third person game with a gamepad will have issues with camera. Because you need to adjust it so often.


For me the horse feels just fine. I've played other good games with a horse like Zelda games and the horse controls basically the same. You can't expect this horse to do zig zags like Son Goku. It's going to control like a horse which means wide turns.
Combat is fine as well on horseback.


So I'm not seeing the issues here. My character is responsive and does what I tell it to do. Combat isn't as fast paced as Devil May Cry series but it's going to get to that point.
Characters have more life like movement because you're still playing a human character.

I'm surprised you said that release rolling is good and then proceeded to say that this game is responsive. It quite literally makes your reactions less consistent. Depending on the spring of your button, how hard you press it, and how quick your fingers are, it WILL be less responsive than simply making it the press of a button. Even worse, you can not compensate for it because this delay will NEVER be consistent. I've noticed that souls players have a habit of double tapping their buttons to adjust to this and that's not a good thing with how massive the input buffer is.

A bad camera gives giants more meaning? Who the hell cares? I can't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ see half of the fight, so how can I even appreciate the presentation?

I should explain a bit more on the cross hair. It's impossible to tell the region that scans for targets, and the game does not lock on to whatever is on-screen, you have to look in the general direction of where the enemy is at. In order to lock on asap, I have to mash lock on until I finally get it right while also simultaneously wrestling with the stupid camera resets. Honestly, just put a dot in the middle of the screen and this issue would not exist.

[Trackpad Chad]

Publicado originalmente por VLARC:

So you are goning to tell me that a console game, which was made by FROM, has bad controls? And then you would also explain how most of it's issues are caused by gamepads limitations?

Wow. What a shocking revelation.

God, if only PC controls weren't the most atrocious controls I have ever seen in my life (RIGHT CLICKING TO EXIT MENUS?!?!), and I had more than barebones remapping to make the controls functional.

[GrandTickler]

Publicado originalmente por hemorrhage911:

Only thing I dislike is the way torrent moves around, he does this automatic step forward which causes a lot of falls on my part, when I am already pretty clumsy to begin with.

as scary as it sounds, u can do a instant 180 turn by double jumping, so whenever u get too close to a ledge u can just jump, pull back > double jump

Publicado originalmente por Doogdog:

Publicado originalmente por GrandTickler:

that just means u timed your rolls wrong and need to git gud, as the souls community says.

i mentioned before that i have a 6 meter wire from my pc to the couch and i have zero issues with delay or rolling trough enemy attacks, so surely it cant be that bad

I don't know if you're trolling, but a 6 meter wired connection compared to a shorter wire would make at MOST ~1 ms of difference in response time.

im not trolling because the last time i posted in a thread like this someone started an argument how that 1ms is a difference of life or death lol.

Publicado originalmente por VLARC:

So you are goning to tell me that a console game, which was made by FROM, has bad controls? And then you would also explain how most of it's issues are caused by gamepads limitations?

Wow. What a shocking revelation.

just badly configured controllers by people who dont know how native controller support can clash with steam big picture controller support. its almost as funny as the hundreds of theads in every game complaining about drift, then it turns out they have a joystick or steering wheel plugged in

[Banana King]

Publicado originalmente por Doogdog:

Publicado originalmente por Banana King:

Doogdog?

More like Dabdog.

That was actually funny. I'm stealing this one for future use.

Thank ya, thank ya....

I'll be here all week...

[Trackpad Chad]

Publicado originalmente por GrandTickler:

Publicado originalmente por hemorrhage911:

Only thing I dislike is the way torrent moves around, he does this automatic step forward which causes a lot of falls on my part, when I am already pretty clumsy to begin with.

as scary as it sounds, u can do a instant 180 turn by double jumping, so whenever u get too close to a ledge u can just jump, pull back > double jump

Publicado originalmente por Doogdog:

I don't know if you're trolling, but a 6 meter wired connection compared to a shorter wire would make at MOST ~1 ms of difference in response time.

im not trolling because the last time i posted in a thread like this someone started an argument how that 1ms is a difference of life or death lol.

Whoever said that is a moron. Rule of thumb is that if it's below ~3-5 ms, then it is basically negligible compared to ambient noise.

[Michael the Meek]

Publicado originalmente por Doogdog:

Firstly, the preamble: I beat the game, get a better excuse.

This game suffers from too many controls and the game by design has a very conservative action economy. There is no way to configure the ridiculousness in game because all you can do is change the binds. The input buffer has been talked to death and if you defend it, you probably smell terrible.

Why are the controls bad?

Let's start with the rolling. Many of you have probably learned the hard way that the roll starts on button RELEASE. This is bad because it creates room for human error in a game that requires precise timing. It is natural when in an intense situation that your motor control becomes more tense. The faster a planned reaction, the less precision you will have. Your ability to work around this will vary from person to person, and controls should not be the cornerstone of a game's difficulty.

To the inevitable, obtuse response that will result from criticizing negative edge rolling, "it just makes the game require more skill git gud," play QWOP for five ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ seconds and tell me how much fun you are having after the novelty dies off. Another example: imagine that you are driving and your usual station is now playing Kidz Bop but some bumbling idiot made your radio a touch screen (which requires taking your eyes off the road to operate) and tell me how that makes you a better driver.

Instead of fighting your own reflexes rather than a cool boss fight, here's a fix assuming you aren't playing this game with kb/m (a whole different can of worms of terrible): Steam has their own integrated controller configuration that is compatible with most standard controllers and games. Stumble around with the menu enough and you can find that you can set your roll button to be a turbo (helps when the game ignores your inputs as well), and then bind a different button to be the standard roll button for when sprinting is wanted. You can even make your control scheme change with the press of a button, it's some gourmet ♥♥♥♥ for those who love customization. I did this and found vast improvement, and dying because of poor controls is a bad experience.

Why are the camera controls bad?

low FOV, too many colossal enemies, no way to turn off auto camera. On top of that, you have your thumb typically reserved for important actions like rolling, chugging, jumping, etc. If a cowardly space centipede teleports behind you for a command grab, you better hope you rotated the right way in time so you can actually see the attack to adequately dodge it.
Sometimes, the camera automatically shifts to show an attack if you are locked on, but it's not guaranteed and this opens up a variety of issues with the lock on system.
Say that your line of sight is interrupted by a random shrub for 4 atoseconds while fighting a flying bastard. If you are running away for better positioning and want to lock back on, guess what? The lock on button also doubles as a camera reset. Better hope that you can aim without a cross hair, because if you miss, you just blinded yourself to an enemy. The camera is also completely locked so you can't pivot to get a better angle if a fat pot bastard is blinding you to radahn's lawnmower. On top of all this, FromSoft should be investigated for animal cruelty because I'm convinced these lock on nodes were placed by chimpanzees. The Farum Azula dungeon was completely ruined for me because I had a small weapons build and I couldn't fast travel to rebuild; the ancient dragons are completely incompatible with the camera. Firstly, they fly all over the place. If you do not lock on, then you will easily lose sight of them. Secondly, you will miss a lot of their attack queues if you are not locked on. Why are the lock on nodes idiotic in this situation? You can't target their damn ankles. Like I said, I had no means of rebuilding and I was using small weapons. Locking on is basically required and the nodes forced me to whiff my attacks because the dragon is a lanky, tall, graphics driver-crashing bastard. I had to spend an ungodly amount of time positioning myself right behind their feet just so I can get a few stabs in before the bastard flies all over the damn place. It was completely dysfunctional, and the item those things drop are extremely important for progression.
I don't even have a fix for this. I have even tried gyro controls, and my current solution is a steam controller trackball and prayers. The camera is genuinely awful.

Lastly, horse controls.
I could probably write another wall of text, but we are both tired at this point. Horses are basically required to avoid some attacks, and everything about horseback feels inconsistent, clumsy, and unresponsive. I genuinely don't see why people like horseback, it feels terrible. Nothing about it feels fluid.

There's also the jank of micromenus and inventory juggling, but it's a very minor issue.

The controls in this game need addressing and the simple solution is to allow more than the bare minimum for configuration. They are hideously designed, and make far too many deaths feel unearned. In a game about """"harsh, but fair"""" difficulty, the last thing you want is obvious reasons the game is at fault.

Leftist memes be crazy

[Trackpad Chad]

Publicado originalmente por Michael the Meek:

Publicado originalmente por Doogdog:

Firstly, the preamble: I beat the game, get a better excuse.

This game suffers from too many controls and the game by design has a very conservative action economy. There is no way to configure the ridiculousness in game because all you can do is change the binds. The input buffer has been talked to death and if you defend it, you probably smell terrible.

Why are the controls bad?

Let's start with the rolling. Many of you have probably learned the hard way that the roll starts on button RELEASE. This is bad because it creates room for human error in a game that requires precise timing. It is natural when in an intense situation that your motor control becomes more tense. The faster a planned reaction, the less precision you will have. Your ability to work around this will vary from person to person, and controls should not be the cornerstone of a game's difficulty.

To the inevitable, obtuse response that will result from criticizing negative edge rolling, "it just makes the game require more skill git gud," play QWOP for five ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ seconds and tell me how much fun you are having after the novelty dies off. Another example: imagine that you are driving and your usual station is now playing Kidz Bop but some bumbling idiot made your radio a touch screen (which requires taking your eyes off the road to operate) and tell me how that makes you a better driver.

Instead of fighting your own reflexes rather than a cool boss fight, here's a fix assuming you aren't playing this game with kb/m (a whole different can of worms of terrible): Steam has their own integrated controller configuration that is compatible with most standard controllers and games. Stumble around with the menu enough and you can find that you can set your roll button to be a turbo (helps when the game ignores your inputs as well), and then bind a different button to be the standard roll button for when sprinting is wanted. You can even make your control scheme change with the press of a button, it's some gourmet ♥♥♥♥ for those who love customization. I did this and found vast improvement, and dying because of poor controls is a bad experience.

Why are the camera controls bad?

low FOV, too many colossal enemies, no way to turn off auto camera. On top of that, you have your thumb typically reserved for important actions like rolling, chugging, jumping, etc. If a cowardly space centipede teleports behind you for a command grab, you better hope you rotated the right way in time so you can actually see the attack to adequately dodge it.
Sometimes, the camera automatically shifts to show an attack if you are locked on, but it's not guaranteed and this opens up a variety of issues with the lock on system.
Say that your line of sight is interrupted by a random shrub for 4 atoseconds while fighting a flying bastard. If you are running away for better positioning and want to lock back on, guess what? The lock on button also doubles as a camera reset. Better hope that you can aim without a cross hair, because if you miss, you just blinded yourself to an enemy. The camera is also completely locked so you can't pivot to get a better angle if a fat pot bastard is blinding you to radahn's lawnmower. On top of all this, FromSoft should be investigated for animal cruelty because I'm convinced these lock on nodes were placed by chimpanzees. The Farum Azula dungeon was completely ruined for me because I had a small weapons build and I couldn't fast travel to rebuild; the ancient dragons are completely incompatible with the camera. Firstly, they fly all over the place. If you do not lock on, then you will easily lose sight of them. Secondly, you will miss a lot of their attack queues if you are not locked on. Why are the lock on nodes idiotic in this situation? You can't target their damn ankles. Like I said, I had no means of rebuilding and I was using small weapons. Locking on is basically required and the nodes forced me to whiff my attacks because the dragon is a lanky, tall, graphics driver-crashing bastard. I had to spend an ungodly amount of time positioning myself right behind their feet just so I can get a few stabs in before the bastard flies all over the damn place. It was completely dysfunctional, and the item those things drop are extremely important for progression.
I don't even have a fix for this. I have even tried gyro controls, and my current solution is a steam controller trackball and prayers. The camera is genuinely awful.

Lastly, horse controls.
I could probably write another wall of text, but we are both tired at this point. Horses are basically required to avoid some attacks, and everything about horseback feels inconsistent, clumsy, and unresponsive. I genuinely don't see why people like horseback, it feels terrible. Nothing about it feels fluid.

There's also the jank of micromenus and inventory juggling, but it's a very minor issue.

The controls in this game need addressing and the simple solution is to allow more than the bare minimum for configuration. They are hideously designed, and make far too many deaths feel unearned. In a game about """"harsh, but fair"""" difficulty, the last thing you want is obvious reasons the game is at fault.

Leftist memes be crazy

Sorry, depending on my motivation, I might make the post less schizophrenic later.